Musical Homophobia - or The Homophobia Histories

[Pabmusic]

I tend to agree with you but I think you've got the cart before the horse - let's tackle the monstrosity (lovely word) that is 'homosexual' first - one part Greek, the other Latin, much to the confusion of those who wish to pronounce it correctly.

Television...? :whistle: Big in the 1930s, I believe.

[JimD]

I tend to agree with you but I think you've got the cart before the horse - let's tackle the monstrosity (lovely word) that is 'homosexual' first - one part Greek, the other Latin, much to the confusion of those who wish to pronounce it correctly.

Well I thought that had already been done, to general acceptance, by means of 'gay'. It's an unfortunate choice, in my view, because of the historical association of the word with promiscuity.

[amateur51]

Television...? :whistle: Big in the 1930s, I believe.

Ah blame it on television - quite right too - teddy boys and the like :winkeye:

[amateur51]

Well I thought that had already been done, to general acceptance, by means of 'gay'. It's an unfortunate choice, in my view, because of the historical association of the word with promiscuity.

Let's face it, whatever word you choose there'll always be some to find an unfortunate association.

I tend to blame Ivor :winkeye:

[french frank]

There are gays who are vehemently opposed to the whole silly, divisive idea as well ...

And what does he say in the very first line: "the clubby, leftist lemmings". Are you sure his real motives in opposing the Gay Pride movement aren't political? [THEM, in this case, being the clubby leftist lemmings - whatever nonsense they're spouting] And so plus ça change ...

Let's also note that in ll 3-4, he says: "So basically, I just avoided and ignored them because they had nothing to say to me or for me."

If people here think he's talking such good sense, they might do well to follow his example?

[JimD]

Let's face it, whatever word you choose there'll always be some to find an unfortunate association.

I tend to blame Ivor :winkeye:

Yes, these things have unpredictable trajectories. At school, as my daughter tells me, the word 'gay' is derogatory. Yet (my impression is) homosexuality is generally not an issue (probably excluding the Muslim students, but that is another story). Thus when I challenge her on the derogatory usage she just claims there's no connection between the two usages. I'm not sure that I think she is right.

I am impressed with the American-led(?) strategy of invading the enemy's heartland and appropriating the word 'queer'.

[scottycelt]

... when I first kissed a man I felt repelled. It was just plain wrong, chemically and emotionally

Here, at least, we may have have reached a rare point of accord, Jayne. I have huge sympathy and understanding for that view though, in this particular case, my total ignorance of the practice will be willingly and eagerly acknowledged!

Getting back to the main subject. Whatever the rights and wrongs, is it for the Russian people to decide the moral standards of their society or for the liberal West?

It seems the very same members who regularly tell us that the West shouldn't interfere in the affairs of other countries are now telling us that it should!

Flossie is right. I'm obviously too stupid to understand the logic, consistency and compatibility of both arguments. Can anyone help me out, here?

Flossie, maybe ... ? :cool:

[Richard Barrett]

is it for the Russian people to decide the moral standards of their society or for the liberal West?

And what say do you think "the Russian people" (and in particular those affected by homophobic legislation) have in the matter? Notice that opinions on the subject here do not claim to be speaking for "the liberal West" (whatever that might be) but for the right of people - all people - not to be persecuted for their sexuality. It's not rocket science I think.

[scottycelt]

And what does he say in the very first line: "the clubby, leftist lemmings". Are you sure his real motives in opposing the Gay Pride movement aren't political? [THEM, in this case, being the clubby leftist lemmings - whatever nonsense they're spouting] And so plus ça change ...

Let's also note that in ll 3-4, he says: "So basically, I just avoided and ignored them because they had nothing to say to me or for me."

If people here think he's talking such good sense, they might do well to follow his example?

Are the views expressed any more or less 'political' than most posted here?

I don't think they are ... swap 'clubby, leftist lemmings' for 'right-wing homophobes and bigots' and you might get the idea.

Sadly, it was ever thus! One doesn't have to agree with anything else the writer says to have sympathy with his views about 'Gay Pride'?

For example, MrGG and I are both strongly pro-EU but can agree on little else!

[scottycelt]

And what say do you think "the Russian people" (and in particular those affected by homophobic legislation) have in the matter? Notice that opinions on the subject here do not claim to be speaking for "the liberal West" (whatever that might be) but for the right of people - all people - not to be persecuted for their sexuality. It's not rocket science I think.

So that's your roundabout way of saying that the West (liberal or not) should attempt to interfere in the internal affairs of Russia ... ?

[amateur51]

Are the views expressed any more or less 'political' than most posted here?

Sadly it's clear that you have not taken jayne's advice and delved a little further into your hero's background, scotty. Are you familiar with The Illuminati? :whistle:

[Richard Barrett]

So that's your roundabout way of saying that the West (liberal or not) should attempt to interfere in the internal affairs of Russia ... ?

Gay rights are not an "internal affair of Russia".

[Serial_Apologist]

Are the views expressed any more or less 'political' than most posted here?

I don't think they are ... swap 'clubby, leftist lemmings' for 'right-wing homophobes and bigots' and you might get the idea.

Sadly, it was ever thus! One doesn't have to agree with anything else the writer says to have sympathy with his views about 'Gay Pride'?

For example, MrGG and I are both strongly pro-EU but can agree on little else!

I'm glad to note that you thoroughly checked this man's political credentials before posting that quote, then. Consistency has to mean everything to a man of principle such as your good self.

[Stillhomewardbound]

I have no objection to same sex relationships. Many of my valued friends are of that persuasion, but I do object to the misappropriation of the word "Gay".

This is a short piece I wrote a few years back for my website, latelygay.com, in response to this tiresome and outdated moan:


"I heard that tired old complaint the other day about how sad it was that that lovely word 'gay' had been 'stolen by the homosexuals'!"

I'm not sure at which particular smash 'n' grab raid this shocking felony is imagined to have taken place, but I suspect it was more a case of a neglected and battered word having been hauled out of a skip in Dictionary Corner.

In its previous guise, 'gay' is a word I've most regularly associated with an era of 'bright young things' in the 20s and 30s. An age when young people were hellbent on being carefree and, as Noel Coward might have pirrupped, 'irreprehensibly irresponsible', as they sought to escape the heavy shadow of guilt cast by a generation wasted on the fields of the Somme or at Ypres. Glitter and be gay for tomorrow you might die, seemed to be their motto.

In time, a massive depression, another world war and the austerity of the 1950s eventually did for the word 'gay' and into the skip it went.

However, it's adoption by the early gay rights movement as early as the late 1960s draws close parallels with that earlier incarnation of the word.

Now, as then, there was another new and bright generation rebelling against the strictures of the past. Homosexual this time, as it happens, and no less determined to cast off a shadow. The shadow of repression that had seen them and their forebears closeted for generations. A decisive moment to say to the world 'We're just gay. And that means as Good As You!'

So, gay is the word and it fits us very nicely, and anyway, the English language has got back the word 'queer', just about."


* Since I wrote this piece the word 'queer' has come back in LGBT circles, or as some might have it, 're:misappropriated'. Either way, it never occurred to me that the English language could be held on some kind of leasehold basis.

[amateur51]

This is a short piece I wrote a few years back for my website, latelygay.com, in response to this tiresome and outdated moan:


"I heard that tired old complaint the other day about how sad it was that that lovely word 'gay' had been 'stolen by the homosexuals'!"

I'm not sure at which particular smash 'n' grab raid this shocking felony is imagined to have taken place, but I suspect it was more a case of a neglected and battered word having been hauled out of a skip in Dictionary Corner.

In its previous guise, 'gay' is a word I've most regularly associated with an era of 'bright young things' in the 20s and 30s. An age when young people were hellbent on being carefree and, as Noel Coward might have pirrupped, 'irreprehensibly irresponsible', as they sought to escape the heavy shadow of guilt cast by a generation wasted on the fields of the Somme or at Ypres. Glitter and be gay for tomorrow you might die, seemed to be their motto.

In time, a massive depression, another world war and the austerity of the 1950s eventually did for the word 'gay' and into the skip it went.

However, it's adoption by the early gay rights movement as early as the late 1960s draws close parallels with that earlier incarnation of the word.

Now, as then, there was another new and bright generation rebelling against the strictures of the past. Homosexual this time, as it happens, and no less determined to cast off a shadow. The shadow of repression that had seen them and their forebears closeted for generations. A decisive moment to say to the world 'We're just gay. And that means as Good As You!'

So, gay is the word and it fits us very nicely, and anyway, the English language has got back the word 'queer', just about."


* Since I wrote this piece the word 'queer' has come back in LGBT circles, or as some might have it, 're:misappropriated'. Either way, it never occurred to me that the English language could be held on some kind of leasehold basis.

Cracking piece shb. :ok:

How nice to hear from someone else's 'memoires' for a change :biggrin: