Musical Homophobia - or The Homophobia Histories

[Nick Armstrong]

Not sure I shall hear "The Lark Ascending" in quite the same way ever again...!

:biggrin:

[Richard Barrett]

Ah, I see ...

I doubt that very much.

impose an alien 'gay rights' culture

Gay rights are not an imposition, the oppression of gays is the imposition. If you were gay or had the slightest empathy with the position of gay people in places like Russia you might just be able to see that. But no.

[Richard Barrett]

those acts by, was it Sandy Powell, when he did a recitation wearing different hats for each character, leading inevitably to a certain amount of panic and confusion?

Tommy Cooper, surely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKblP3_EkM0

[Serial_Apologist]

Not sure I shall hear "The Lark Ascending" in quite the same way ever again...!

:biggrin:

We'll all be thinking "Vaughan Williams" from now on... :blush:

[Padraig]

Not sure I shall hear "The Lark Ascending" in quite the same way ever again...!

:biggrin:

New improved version, eh?

But, where does it leave honest Joe Gargery?

[Nick Armstrong]

New improved version, eh?

But, where does it leave honest Joe Gargery?

Wot?!?!

Eh, Pip!!

[Padraig]

Eh, Pip!!

Hooray!

[Mary Chambers]

Funny how these threads trigger different lines of thought. I've been thinking that I know what a skylark looks like and how it sounds, but I'm not sure I could tell a male one from a female. Do only the males sing?

[Boilk]

Anyone who thinks Gay Pride discriminates against hetros is either stupid or a troll.

Completely agree. But, would you object to a hetero pride march? I'll bet the mass media would brand it little more than a homophobic stunt if one actually occurred.

Some might argue that, assuming heteros are not discriminated against, the motives for taking part should be suspect. But what if some people really wanted to celebrate (hetero)sexuality that way? And if some of the participants were also gay/bi, supporting their hetero friends?

Pee and Scotty, come out from behind your shallow evasions and own up to your prejudices - either you agree that I'm BORN THIS WAY and you hate me because I'm not like you, or your dislike is driven by misguided religious or anthropological certainties - "it's ungodly, not normal, it's unnatural, the animals don't do it" etc.

Any chance of some objectivity in the language we're using here? How are we defining normal? The definition of the noun normal is "The usual, average, or typical state or condition". If it is indeed true that one in 66 Britons is gay or bisexual then that one in 66 (1.5%) hardly meets the definition of 'normal' for the larger population. It wouldn't even meet that definition if it was one in 20.

So whilst I agree about the sheer lunacy of the "it's ungodly" argument, the "it's unnatural" argument (it's wholly natural if you happen to be born with those sexual orientations), you really cannot call any small percentage minority trait in a species "normal". That of course does NOT justify any discrimination whatsoever in a supposedly intelligent species. I think it simply comes down to some people being intolerant of the differences between us.

And by the way, the "animals don't do it" argument is losing ground, as witnessed on several wildlife documentaries.

[JimD]

Funny how these threads trigger different lines of thought. I've been thinking that I know what a skylark looks like and how it sounds, but I'm not sure I could tell a male one from a female. Do only the males sing?

"The male Skylark has broader wings than the female. This adaptation for more efficient hovering flight may have evolved owing to the females preference for males that hover and sing for longer periods."

http://www.animalcorner.co.uk/endangered/bi_birdskylark.html

Typical.

[umslopogaas]

Mary, according to 'History of British Birds' by Rev. F.O.Morris, "The female sings at times, it is said, as well as the male." Mind you, this was published in 1895, so there must be more up to date info., but I dont have any modern bird books.

[Richard Barrett]

would you object to a hetero pride march? I'll bet the mass media would brand it little more than a homophobic stunt if one actually occurred. Some might argue that, assuming heteros are not discriminated against, the motives for taking part should be suspect. But what if some people really wanted to celebrate (hetero)sexuality that way? And if some of the participants were also gay/bi?

What if? I wonder then why no such thing has ever happened without it being little more than a homophobic stunt? The answer is that "hetero pride" already IS celebrated everywhere, in the structure of society, in language, in advertisements, in the way that there's nowhere in the world where straight people are oppressed for their sexuality.

[scottycelt]

Hello all

I am new here. A fascinating thread. I just wondered what those who, for religious reasons, struggle with the idea of homosexuality in humans, feel when they learn that such behaviour is not exclusively human: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homose...ior_in_animals ?

Where does this then leave religious prohibition of homosexuality, if it is a naturally occurring phenomenon (a genetic one which, Dawkins would argue, must serve a purpose)?

Yours,

Ruhevoll

Hello Ruhevoll ... and welcome!

It is a fascinating thread, isn't it?

I have really no idea how animals behave sexually or skylarks for that matter. Nevertheless, if the beasties and birdies were all to regularly behave in the manner described above there would be mighty few beasties and birdies left? Also, religious ethics were intended for the human species alone and were never, ever meant to include animals and skylarks.

Furthermore, when the good Professor Dawkins argues a point to promote his self-confessed detestation of religious belief, others have quite often discovered that the very opposite turns out to be true?

Regards,

scottycelt

[ahinton]

So who and what should impose an alien 'gay rights' culture on the Russian people against their will, then ... a special NATO expeditionary force led by Stephen Fry?

"Alien" to whom and on what grounds? In what terms can a "gay rights culture" (whatever that is) be seen as having been "imposed" by or upon anyone? Who are "the Russian people"? and are you suggesting that you believe them all to think alike on this or any other issue? On what evidence do you deduce that the social and legal recognition of homosexuality is "against the will" of all Russians?

I get the impression that the term "gay rights culture" as you use it substitutes for what I described above as "the social and legal recognition of homosexuality" and accordingly sounds to be more pejorative; any tolerant society would surely not even perceive a need for such a phenomenon as a "gay rights culture" because it risks carrying with it the suggestion that gay people have - and indeed should have - a culture all their own and that their rights are and shold be somehow separate from those of heterosexual people. Such a culture cannot in any case be "imposed" and is a nonsense in any society that already accepts that sexual proclivity is neither a matter of personal choice nor one that should give rise to inequalities of treatment. All that should be signified by the notion of "gay rights" is that gay people have the same rights in society as non-gay people, including equal treatment under the law. The implied allegation that all Russians - not just that country's lawmakers - are fervently anti-homosexual and believe that all homosexuals should be treated as second-class citizens and have inferior rights under the law of the land seems to me to be as absurd and unfounded as it is offensive.

[jayne lee wilson]

Mary, according to 'History of British Birds' by Rev. F.O.Morris, "The female sings at times, it is said, as well as the male." Mind you, this was published in 1895, so there must be more up to date info., but I dont have any modern bird books.

As a keen bird-observer for...like, FOREVER, I suspect this was a mistaken observation. On my recounted occasion I knew the skylark pairs well already. I guess it's possible a female may have a quiet warbling subsong few would ever hear, but the point of the soaring flight is sexual display and seems (!) restricted to the males with their evolved big-wings.
(Always open to further suggestion and observation of course...)

...the problem with terms as "normal" and "normalcy" "abnormal" or especially the scowling "not normal", is their explicit or strongly implied judgemental, pejorative undertone. "Sexual variation" seems to fit the bill better.