The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[antongould]

So presumably you meant to say " ....some of whom..... are not even listening,,,,,,,"? as you yourself are, I presume, not listening.

[french frank]

So presumably you meant to say " ....some of whom..... are not even listening,,,,,,,"? as you yourself are, I presume, not listening.

No, I was referring to the new listeners that Radio 3 wishes to attract, not the ones who are already listening to the station.

I was saying that the new listeners that Radio 3 was aiming to attract were not yet listening, even though the programme had been tailored specially to attract them (referring to changes that begin next Monday).

[antongould]

Silly me - a thousand apologies.

[french frank]

Silly me - a thousand apologies.

Not at all. I had a feeling you still thought of yourself as a 'new listener'. Going to have to move up soon, anton

[antongould]

No still very new - a long, but I have no doubt very rewarding, way to go.

[salymap]

Don't 'come the innocent' Anton. you know a lot more about music than you think you do. I've seen some of your posts, not to me but on general musical topics. Don't be modest.

Oh, Good morning,by the way.

[Norfolk Born]

Here's Monday's offerings:
06:31
Telemann
Fanfare from Suite in D major TWV 55 D:18
Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin
Harmonia Mundi HMX 2901795
Tr. 13

06:34
Parry
I was glad
Choir of Winchester Cathedral
Waynflete Singers
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra
David Hill
Argo 430 836-2
Tr. 1

06:42
Faure
Dolly - suite for piano duet (Op.56), no.1; Berceuse
Katia & Marielle Labeque [piano]
Philips 420 1592
Tr. 13

06:45
Brahms
Academic festival overture (Op.80)
Berlin Philharmonic
Claudio Abbado
DG 435 6832
Tr. 1

07:03
Bernstein
Mambo from West Side Story
Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela
Gustavo Dudamel [conductor]
DG 477 8337
Tr. 11

07:06
Claude DEBUSSY
Images - no.1; Reflets dans l'eau
Pierre-Laurent Aimard [piano]
Warner 8573 83940-2
Tr. 1

07:11
Marin Marais
Sonnerie de St Genevieve du Mont de Paris
Le Concert des Nations
Jordi Savall [bass viol and direction]
Alia Vox AV 9821
Tr. 16

07:20
Delibes
Les Chasseresses from Sylvia
New Philharmonia Orchestra
Richard Bonynge [conductor]
Decca 478 1526
CD8 Tr. 15

07:31
Vivaldi
L’Olimpiade RV 725 (Sinfonia)
Orfeo 55
Nathalie Stutzmann [director]
DG 476 4390
Tr. 15-17

07:37
Chopin
Nocturne Op 27 no 2
Maria Joao Pires [piano]
DG 477 8445
CD7 Tr. 8

07:44
Shostakovich
Festival Overture Op 96
Russian National Orchestra
Mikhail Pletnev [conductor]
DG 439 8922
Tr. 3

07:53
Haydn
Symphony no.104 (H.1.104) in D major "London", 4th movement; Finale
Les Musiciens du Louvre-Grenobles
Marc Minkowski [conductor]
Naïve V 5176
Tr. 12

08:03
Copland
Hoedown from Rodeo
San Francisco Symphony Orchestra
Michael Tilson Thomas [conductor]
RCA 09026635112
Tr. 6

08:07
Pergolesi
Stabat Mater
The Academy of Ancient Music
Emma Kirkby [soprano]
ames Bowman [counter tenor]
Christopher Hogwood [conductor]
L'Oiseau-Lyre 425 692-2
Tr. 1

08:12
Mozart
Divertimento K251: 1st mvt: Allegro molto
Scottish Chamber Orchestra
Alexander Janiczek [director]
LINN CKD 320
Tr. 10

08:17
Rachmaninov
Concerto for piano and orchestra no. 2 (Op. 18) in C minor: 2nd mvt - Adagio Sostenuto
Simon Trpceski [piano]
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic
Vasily Petrenko [conductor]
Avie AV 2192
Tr. 2

08:31
Bach
Gloria from Mass in F major BWV 233
Chorus and Orchestra of Collegium Vocale Ghent
Philippe Herreweghe [director]
Virgin 6 28481 2 1
CD1 Tr. 2

08:37
Elgar
Where Corals lie from Sea Pictures
Dame Janet Baker
London Symphony Orchestra
Sir John Barbirolli [conductor]
Philips 465 253-2
Tr. 2

08:42
Sibelius
Symphony No 5 – 3rd mvt (Finale)
Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra
Maris Jansons [conductor]
Label tbc
Tr. tbc


A confection of (very) familiar pieces and bleeding chunks tumbled together into a cake of unutterable blandness that would sit well in CFM schedules at any time of the day or night.

It so happens that I am handling (for the estate) the library of books and CDs of a late and dear customer of mine. The Cds number into thousands (gulp!) and I am having a marvellous weekend opening box after box of fascinating material. What has struck me about the material among the CDs is how LITTLE of it we ever hear on R3. Here is a recording of Rubbra's Four Medieval Latin Lyrics using the same texts as the Orff Carmina Burana - but how much more delicate and intriguing is the Rubbra!! And the beautiful Spenser sonnets. Any of these would be perfect material for the Breakfast programme yet we get the same old, same old, rehashed and regurgitated week after week.

Excuse me ... are you SURE you haven't posted the CFM breakfast schedule in error?

[french frank]

One thing about the future Breakfast playlists to bear in mind: Rob won't be there any more. Okay, no rucksack, but also his expertise will be gone. What will the Breakfast production team be like? Actually, I don't think there is much of a team - just the presenter and the producer (of whom little is ever known). I can't see Petroc putting together much of a programme without help.

I think they will get in a computer (if they haven't already) to generate a selection to fit the timings - it's much more flexible when you can read two, three, four &c. emails out, however many you need.

And the problem is that the new listeners will NEVER know what they missed back in the heady days when the breakfast prog. was listenable and fairly stimulating. Just think! they will never have heard a breakfast programme without trails and listener contributions. All they'll have to compare it with is Chris Evans (&c) ...

[mercia]

All they'll have to compare it with

can't they compare it with the rest of the day's output which doesn't have (so many) trails or listener contributions

[vinteuil]

Roland White has a small piece in the Sunday Times about the dilemma of Radio 3 and the disquiet the proposed Breakfast phone-ins and chats are causing... making a comparison with Radio 1 - "Our Tune, the Radio 1 feature in which Simon Bates read out a listener’s story of happiness turning to tragedy and the music associated with it (“duh duh da da... and as she emerged from the combine harvester, neatly baled and stacked... duh duh duh daar... the radio was playing Drink up Thy Zider, by Adge Cutler and the Wurzels”). Our Tune was awful; nonetheless, it proved so popular that Bates went on to do something similar for Classic FM."

[Roehre]

yes, I find it odd that of the hundreds (more than six hundred, I think?) of Schubert Lieder we hear, again and again, perhaps the same dozen - and of the hundreds of Bach organ works (what, two hundred or so?) we hear, again and again, the same handful - but mostly just the one, weakest, piece, of doubtful attribution....

I love Schubert Lieder and Bach organ works. Doesn't the BBC have people of sufficient imagination and range to move away from the corny 'hundred best tunes'?

No, it seems not. Who can programme these other delicacies if they don't know these themselves

[french frank]

can't they compare it with the rest of the day's output which doesn't have (so many) trails or listener contributions

Indeed they can. But the battle over whether one absolutely has to have froth and fun and heart-warming human interest at breakfast time, along with some interval musical, has long been lost.

This discussion always takes place on the false premise that it either has to be triviality heaped upon triviality or three hours (now two and a half) of Wagner. My point was that new listeners have never heard the Middle Way which, given the depths to which Breakfast is sinking, would nowadays be quite acceptable, though no great shakes, to those with longer memories.

[mercia]

the battle .......... has long been lost

not really worth banging one's head against the proverbial [brick wall] anymore then

[antongould]

not really worth banging one's head against the proverbial anymore then

I don't think it (the banging) will stop - hence the title of the thread.

I did on odd occasions in my earlier years listen to the Third Programme at Breakfast and did honestly find it too much of a leap - but I promise to keep quiet for a while FF tells me I have taken over "your" station ( by accident I promise! ) and so I should, I suppose, be happy and silent.

[antongould]

Don't 'come the innocent' Anton. you know a lot more about music than you think you do. I've seen some of your posts, not to me but on general musical topics. Don't be modest.

Oh, Good morning,by the way.

Sorry my silence didn't last long - but when my "mentor" calls -

Morning to you - I am still terribly innocent in terms of the general level of these Boards but thanks to people like your good self - I progress a little day by day...............

To save another post in another place - we have sunshine!!!!!!