The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[johnb]

In the old forum I would avoid expressing any opinions about the Breakfast programme as most people's views are fairly well entrenched and it seemed utterly pointless to get into an argument about the matter.

For what it's worth I rarely, if ever, listen to it these days. It's main function seems to be to provide background music - something I prefer to do without.

Mind you, I remember, about 20 years ago, commuting to Birmingham in the morning and being transfixed by Mavrinsky's performance of Sibelius 7 on the then equivalent to 'Breakfast'. It was the first time I had heard the recording - that amazing Russian brass! So, the current format might be the fashion of the moment (and perhaps of the future) but it isn't the only way of dealing with the Breakfast slot.

PS I do wish Roger Wright would find a better use for Rob Cowan (but the same thing can be said in relation to Jonathan Swain).

[Suffolkcoastal]

There is still the misconception that those who criticise Breakfast want to replace it with full scale works. I don't think that is the case, certainly for me I think it is ok to have a programme made of works/extracts from 5-20 minutes in length as long as there isn't the never ending trailers, silly texting invites to continually detract from the music. The other main problem with Breakfast is, as I've pointed out several times on the R3 messageboards, that the content of the programme is becoming too predictable. You know wityh Rob you'll normally get 2 or more bits of J S Bach and often Mozart too, with SMP Monteverdi, the inevitable Vivaldi or contemporary concerto/concerto grosso, the Gershwin arrangement, a Slavonic or Hungarian Dance,a movement from The Planets (normally Jupiter, Mars or Mercury), some Debussy, Ravel or Faure (or sometimes all 3) and a selection from a select group of works (Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet, Espana, the horrid little Saint-Saens Tarantella, or the Nutcracker for example) plus a bit of non-classical (to annoy the classical music lovers). Yes, most programmes seem to have one or two interesting works and very occasioanlly one of the programmes looks really interesting when I've looked at the schedule afterwards. But I don't want to tune in to be bombarded with chat and travel and the same old pieces on the chance of hearing some less familiar works. Publishing the playlist in advance (or at least most of it) would be beneficial and might encourage some of us who have left the programme to tune in for part of it to hear something that interests us. Perhaps some of us who both like and dislike the programme should be asked to collate some programmes and ask for feedback.

My thanks to ff for getting these MB up so quickly. An excellent job and well done!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I knew it wouldn't be long before the inverted snobs made their mark. I quite like Breakfast, but do find the texting nausiating. A a better system would be for the presenters to scour this messageboard for interesting (positive) comments and braodcast them. Rob Cowan has done this in the past. That would avoid the embarrassing situations such as the one this morning, when someone texted in about post-war Halle Concerts near Belle Vue Zoo in Burnage. The next text message was from someone else correcting this geographical error.
Incidentally, I remember going to the King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester to hear David Oistrach playing Beethoven's Violin Concerto with Barbirolli and the Halle.

[Suffolkcoastal]

This morning I noticed we had Debussy, Ravel & Faure, an extract from The Nutcracker and three bits of Bach (one was an inevitable arrangement). There are other French composers Rob! Lets have composers like Ropartz, Koechlin, Milhaud, Ibert and D'Indy, Lalo, Francaix for example occuring a little more often in the programme and give the almost daily Debussy or Ravel or Faure (or a combination of 2 or all 3 of these) a rest, at least for a week! Do we really need more than one work by any composer in the programme?

[antongould]

I, whilst a defender of RC and SMP would agree only one piece per composer per morning. I also agree that we seem to have had rather a lot of Debussy, Ravel and Faure recently. Lets hope someone "in power" is reading this or should you send a text Suffolkcoastal?

[Don Basilio]

I honestly don't see why James' opinions are necessarily the mark of a snob. He isn't being pretentious, or making unfair sniffy comments about the presenters, he just feels patronised, and can't stand the trailers. A fair expression of an individual opinion.

But there is well-meaning, faux friendly whitter on most radio stations. A bit of soothing background music (not necessarily a whole symphony by any means) would be preferable.

[Bax-of-Delights]

suffolk:
I've also noticed in the last couple of weeks a fair smattering of Grieg: Peer Gynt. Just single movements from the Suite.
It feels as if someone suddenly "discovered" the CD and said "ooh, this will be perfect to shove in Breakfast and In Tune" - and hey presto! one after the other they march into the airwaves until one groans at yet another In the Hall of the Mountain King.
And I see Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet still holds Sean Rafferty in thrall.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i heard some music by Jarzerbski on through the night, i could stand a deal more on Breakfast ... more interesting explorations would be fine .. and no tweeety pie messages ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5Alsatxt6M

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ther may well be a place on Radio 3 for a regular slot for short pieces and single movements, but it would be better to keep this within reasonable limits. On Sundays, it has just become silly. The logical thing would be to end the day with a programme called "Your 100 Best Tunes" with an elderly, soothing, loveable presenter.

[Don Basilio]

On Sundays, it has just become silly. The logical thing would be to end the day with a programme called "Your 100 Best Tunes" with an elderly, soothing, loveable presenter.

Until then I wish you well, and now, a very good night to you all. (The Derry Air swells up.)

Sunday has just never seemed Sunday since then.

[french frank]

>>>By the way, I toy idly with making any form of the word 'snob' show up in red


Ha ! :)

Well, I discover I can censor words, like snob (for snobbery, snobbish &c) but that doesn't stop it being posted. It replaces each letter with a chosen symbol, e.g. an *.

But I'm not sure that 'You are a **** , sir!' doesn't look worse than 'You are a snob'

[Suffolkcoastal]

It would also have start with 'Hello, good evening and welcome' end with Abide with Me and often start with a piece called 'The Old Grumbler' by Fucik (or as Alan Keith used to pronounce it Foojeek with strong accent on the F). I noticed the sudden increase in movements from Peer Gynt, now we are beginning to have the same with The Nutcracker (must be approaching Christmas). The large amount of Debussy, Ravel & Faure played is indicitive of R3 generally at the moment. I though the former two were over played last year but with just over a month to go both look as if they've increased their shar by between 5 & 10% this year while Faure has increased by around 30%. Though with Faure it the same handful of pieces (i.e. Apres une Reve in various disarrangements, Cantique de Jean Racine etc) but his chamber music is still slightly underepresented at the moment. On BoD's point extracts from the Prokofiev: Romeo & Juliet accounts for around 15% of the Prokofiev broadcast on R3 and the Slavonic Dances account for around 15% of the Dvorak played.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Doesn's the word "snob" derive from somthing quite opposite to the way we interpret it: a cobbler's apprentice?

[Don Basilio]

The OED gives the following, Alpen

1. a. dial. or colloq. A shoemaker or cobbler; a cobbler's apprentice.
b. The last sheep to be sheared; hence, the roughest or most difficult sheep to shear; = COBBLER 1b. Austral. and N.Z. slang.
{dag}2. Cambridge slang. Any one not a gownsman; a townsman. Obs. (Cf. CAD2 4.)
3. a. A person belonging to the ordinary or lower classes of society; one having no pretensions to rank or gentility.
b. One who has little or no breeding or good taste; a vulgar or ostentatious person.
c. One who meanly or vulgarly admires and seeks to imitate, or associate with, those of superior rank or wealth; one who wishes to be regarded as a person of social importance.
d. One who despises those who are considered inferior in rank, attainment, or taste. Freq. in extended sense with defining word that limits its reference to a particular sphere.

Only the final one could possibly refer to James' post, and there is no reason to believe that it does. I don't think it was a kind or helpful thing to say.

[Gasteiner]

Sorry to interrupt the flow of this fascinating discussion but I can't see a "new members introduction" thread, so I'll just say a quick hello here. I'm a long time listener to R3 and used to post on the R3 Message Board but haven't done so for a couple of years. Nor can I see a section relating to "Classical Collection". Is that subsumed in this general area?