Ormandy's Sibelius from Philadelphia?

[Karafan]

I see that Sony are re-releasing an Ormandy album on Monday made up of Sibelian tone poems, Alfven and Grieg. I cannot say that Ormandy is frightfully well represented on my groaning shelves and i can't see much online by way of vintage reviews of this when it was originally out on vinyl.

Anyone any memories or opinions on it?

Cheers

Karafan

[madamesuggia]

Warm winter greetings to you Karafan,

I was listening to Ormandy's recording of Sibelius' 1st symphony with the Philadelphia Orchestra this very morning, and thinking how wonderful it is.
I have'nt heard the Sibelian tone poems that you mention so I'll keep an eye on this thread for other opinions.

Best wishes,

Madamesuggia

[Don Petter]

One of my all-time favourite LPs was Ormandy and the Philadelphia playing the Sibelius 4th and 5th symphonies (on Philips). Wonderfully shivery-down-the-spine (in the best sense, as Claudia would say).

Recently I was delighted to find that Pristine has issued the performances on a CD, completed by the Swan of Tuonela and Finlandia. (They can be downloaded instead, of course.) My memory was not at fault - Ormandy was an excellent Sibelius conductor, so don't hesitate.

[visualnickmos]

I have the syms 1,2,5,7 and Finlandia, Valse Tr.., Swan of Tuonela, Karelia, Pohjola's Daug..., En Saga. They are not 'vintage' recordings - all being stereo. I find them very recommendable, but then I do especially like Ormandy. I don't think he ever recorded the 3rd because he "didn't understand it" [sic]
I don't know if he recorded any of remaining JS syms....?

[Don Petter]

I have the syms 1,2,5,7 and Finlandia, Valse Tr.., Swan of Tuonela, Karelia, Pohjola's Daug..., En Saga. They are not 'vintage' recordings - all being stereo. I find them very recommendable, but then I do especially like Ormandy. I don't think he ever recorded the 3rd because he "didn't understand it" [sic]
I don't know if he recorded any of remaining JS syms....?

Ah. I'd forgotten he'd re-recorded some of them. I was talking about the mono recordings from 1954 (Symphonies 4 & 5) and 1950 (Swan & Tuonela). You soon forget about the mono sound as you're drawn into the music.

[visualnickmos]

True - the same can be said of Bruno Walter's Brahms, and for that matter, even Weingartner's Brahms from the 1930s, with, I think the LSO....

[Don Petter]

True - the same can be said of Bruno Walter's Brahms, and for that matter, even Weingartner's Brahms from the 1930s, with, I think the LSO....

You struck a note there! As important to me as the Ormandy Sibelius are the Walter Brahms symphonies (in mono, from 1950s Philips LPs again) with the NY Philharmonic. Now happily also available on CD, and much more satisfying than his stereo Columbia remakes.

[mikealdren]

Funny, Ormandy isn't really a conductor whose name inspires me to buy things so most of the recordings of his that I have are with him accompanying soloists. Amongst these, I've always loved his Sibelius violin concerto with the fabulous Oistrakh coupled with a very fine performance of the swan of tuonela.

Mike

[Karafan]

Thanks for the input - I hope that this might herald Sony re-releasing some of his later (stereo) recordings of the symphonies which haven't been given an airing since the old "Essential classics" series.

But, whilst on the subject of Sibelius, might I put in a word for a little known 2 CD set on the old French DG "Double" label called "Splendeurs du Nord" which has some ubiquitous of the Karajan Grieg/Sibelius but also includes a tremendous Lemminkäinen Suite with the Helsinki RSO* under Okko Kamu, together with a highly atmospheric "En Saga". It is to the Lemminkäinen that I repeatedly turn - I know of no better, not even Horst Stein and the Suisse Romande or good old Ormandy. If you manage to track down the recording, sample the high-octane homecoming and see whether your flesh is also flayed to the bone in the process! (*DG apparently mislabelled them as such as their internal documentation was at fault, when they were actually the Finnish RSO). Well worth looking out for.

++STOP PRESS++ Oh joy! A bit of digging has discovered that the Kamu recordings have just resurfaced (after an interminable absence) on an Australian Eloquence 2CD set with some mono Jochum Sibelius:http://www.amazon.co.uk/Orchestral-W...1475506&sr=8-1

No Sibelian worth his salt should hesitate!

Karafan

[Dave2002]

Ormandy was very good in some music, and I recall that applies to some of his Sibelius. IIR he did at least one very good version of Sibelius 2. Apparently he had an odd ability, liked by recording companies and engineers, in being able to time pieces very accurately, so that he know how to make pieces last just long enough to fit on an LP side - if necessary - without the need to go over to another side. If Sony is going to reissue some of his Sibelius - hopefully at reasonable prices, or as a collection - I'm all for it.

[Barbirollians]

Ormandy's Rachmaninov symphonies are great fun - and such string playing

[umslopogaas]

Don Petter, mikealdren

Thanks for those comments. Don, I was about to post to ask you if the Philips recording of symphs 4 and 5 was ever in stereo, but you answered for me: if it was issued in 1954, it will have only been in mono. I've got the mono LP (ABL 3084) and also a mono of tone poems (Oceanides, En Saga, Pohola's Daughter, Tapiola, ABL 3227). The Oistrakh version of the violin concerto mentioned elsewhere is on an early Philips stereo: SABL 195, issued 1960. All excellent stuff. Oistrakh re-recorded the concerto for Melodiya, issued in the UK by HMV on ASD 2407. At the time I didnt know the work, but a violin-playing friend said oh, you must wait for the Oistrakh recording, he's just about to issue it (presumably he was unaware of the earlier Philips one). I duly bought it and though it is the version from which I got to know the work, I never liked the recording. It seemed very recessed, as though recorded from a long way away. It may have been HMV's engineering, I've never heard the Melodiya original.

The only stereo I've got of Ormandy doing the symphonies is his english CBS of number 1 (SBRG 72111). It is on the sleeve note that he says: "The Third I dont understand, frankly. The Third and the Sixth remain enigmas, as far as I am concerned." I take that to mean that he didnt record the sixth either.

I've always felt confident in any performance conducted by Ormandy. I was knocked over by his version of Elgar's Enigma and V. W.'s Tallis Fantasia when it came out in the early seventies, and I've still got the LP. Just checked the labels and in fact, the Tallis is dated 1963, but the Enigma is dated 1971: I'm not sure if that means that the LP is partly a reissue of earlier material, or whether CBS just sat on the earlier recording for some reason.

[Ferretfancy]

I would certainly like any other Sibelius recordings from Ormandy, I have his tone poems on CD, Finlandia, Valse Triste and En Saga, plus Symphonies 1, 2 & 7. These all sound much better than they did on LP. I also have a 1941 recording of No. 1 in one of those ultra cheap "Maestro" boxes, but the remastering is awful, as it is in all this series. He also recorded the Lemminkainen Legends for EMI some time in the 1970s but I'm not sure if this has been reissued on CD, it certainly deserves it.

As for the Rachmaninov symphonies, I went to the RFH a few weeks ago to hear the 3rd with the Philharmonia and Ashkenazy, and I found myself longing for the sweep that Ormandy achieved in this music. It was a shame, because I admire Ashkenazy's Rachmaninov recordings with the Concertgebouw. Ormandy and Previn are still my top choices.

[Thomas Roth]

The Ormandy Lemminkäinen is available on EMI´s budget label Encore, coupled with Tapiola from Berrglund. EMI 0946 388679 2 0. It´s a wonderful performance.

[Don Petter]

Don Petter, mikealdren

Thanks for those comments. Don, I was about to post to ask you if the Philips recording of symphs 4 and 5 was ever in stereo, but you answered for me: if it was issued in 1954, it will have only been in mono. I've got the mono LP (ABL 3084) and also a mono of tone poems (Oceanides, En Saga, Pohola's Daughter, Tapiola, ABL 3227).

umslop,

Been away for a week. Yes ABL 3084 was indeed the LP in question. I probably have my copy somewhere, but it will be boxed up and not seen the light of day for ages, which is why I was pleased to get the Pristine issue. I don't think I ever knew the tone poems LP.