Joni heading for 90

[Lat-Literal]

Wow, completely missed that!

One of his best songs, and fairly 'recent', to boot....................

A good version from a good album.

Joni Mitchell - Judgement of the Moon and Stars

(Ludwig's Tune)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMD7mcEpU6U

[johncorrigan]

A good version from a good album.

Joni Mitchell - Judgement of the Moon and Stars

(Ludwig's Tune)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMD7mcEpU6U

Robert Wyatt commented on a Beeb 4 documentary a while back that Joni had written 'Both Sides Now' and spent her life singing it and finding its meanings. His argument was that the 60 year old Joni saw things in it that the 25 year old couldn't possibly have, but I think he was also saying that the 70 year old Joni couldn't have written it. I was thinking that about 'Judgement' from the wonderful 'For the Roses', Lat. It feels like a different song on Travelogue - still wonderful, perhaps even more wonderful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDVX_QHg884

[Lat-Literal]

Robert Wyatt commented on a Beeb 4 documentary a while back that Joni had written 'Both Sides Now' and spent her life singing it and finding its meanings. His argument was that the 60 year old Joni saw things in it that the 25 year old couldn't possibly have, but I think he was also saying that the 70 year old Joni couldn't have written it. I was thinking that about 'Judgement' from the wonderful 'For the Roses', Lat. It feels like a different song on Travelogue - still wonderful, perhaps even more wonderful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDVX_QHg884

Have talked all I can talk today, John, on a day when I'd forgotten that it wasn't a fantasy football week. Shouldn't have bought Deulofeu so soon, let alone Lukaku. We want Martinez if Arsene ever has to go as Roberto is a nice man. That means he would fit nicely into the tradition. We will find the people to support him as required. Anyhow, that "Travelogue" which I bought when it was released just might be the "western" album of its decade. I started with "Aerial" which I was sure was a career high for the artist concerned but there are a lot of ifs and buts with it now. A real shame for her. It was the album that represented my move back next door to the old folk at 2005. It is still an unexpected, extraordinary gem with huge depth. "Travelogue" - everything about it is magnificent. I'd signpost "For The Roses". There would have been no Kate without Joni:

Kate Bush - Sunset / Aerial - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWMkrko_EzU
Joni Mitchell - For The Roses - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNvB4Oy3mtQ

[cloughie]

There would have been no Kate without Joni:

I think that Kate is very talented but I think that you are correct. Kate's output is only a fraction of Joni's in both quantity and range. Joni's evolution from folk to jazz was nothing short of phenomenal but the thing that united the two of them was that their careers were both self-determined and did not go for artificial reinventions based on commercial considerations.

[Lat-Literal]

I think that Kate is very talented but I think that you are correct. Kate's output is only a fraction of Joni's in both quantity and range. Joni's evolution from folk to jazz was nothing short of phenomenal but the thing that united the two of them was that their careers were both self-determined and did not go for artificial reinventions based on commercial considerations.

In the case of Bush, it is always worth looking on CDs for credits to her brother.

His inputs have at times been significant but I agree with what you are saying.

Here he is with Justin Vali:

Justin Vali and Paddy Bush - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FqlDOCkwOY

I suppose we would need to consider Joni in the 1980s/1990s in a thorough assessment:

The Tea Leaf Prophecy (Lay Down Your Arms) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fCJsNp10Yo

[johncorrigan]

I suppose we would need to consider Joni in the 1980s/1990s in a thorough assessment:

I loved 'Taming the Tiger' when it came out in '98 and still think it holds up very well whether the title track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g8RZw6rpeE

or the final track 'My Best to you' which when I heard it sounded like a final farewell from Joni to us all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voafilfazAI

There's a great wee reprise on it too, 'Tiger Bones'.

[Lat-Literal]

I loved 'Taming the Tiger' when it came out in '98 and still think it holds up very well whether the title track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g8RZw6rpeE

or the final track 'My Best to you' which when I heard it sounded like a final farewell from Joni to us all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voafilfazAI

There's a great wee reprise on it too, 'Tiger Bones'.

Really excellent John, thank you. That proves it unequivocally. Got very carried away with Peggy Seeger last Friday and have sort of backtracked in my mind ever since without wanting to fully backtrack in respect to her. What I realize too is that when I did that 1, Seeger, 2 Mitchell, 3 Collins of living women, there was no Baez or indeed King and it may just be that there is no absolute way of assessing these things. Instinctively it is Mitchell - emotional, to be frank not without neurosis in the nicest possible way, complicated - and the more one hears the things one hasn't heard before, the more the key parallel seems to be Dylan and Mitchell. Without objectivity, Mitchell is by far and away my No.1 Woman!

I could argue both strongly for and against 1980s/1990s productions. I rather like the 1980s musically and am willing to play devil's advocate on that point because I think it is too lazy to oppose post-1970s' productions per se. It was quite a mixed picture, The significant point as proven in your links is that the sheer brilliance of a Joni and Bob is such the productions don't have adverse impact on their integrity and identity and they could even work them to their advantage. I always go back to the idea of the greats being like authors so just as people get excited about discovering a writer of literature, so it is true with musicians. Most of these "guys" were in my consciousness from the early 1970s but there is that moment when everything clicks and the instinct is to obtain everything. Dylan and Van - 1989 - although I tried with Dylan in 1983. Bruce and Drake - 1990s. Mitchell, Young, Leven - 2000s. I don't have any problem with saying it. eg I can recall "Big Yellow Taxi" from its release but it has been great to buy most "books" by them at later times.

Joni Mitchell on the "Failure of the Baby Boomers" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo7ptzwxGzg

I like the interview.

It is intelligent, interesting and not as condemning as the title suggests. I often do with my own what she does with hers and think, actually, "mine" has been much worse!

[Lat-Literal]

Woodstock - It Might Just Be The Greatest Pop Song of All Time

I suppose the main point arising from the interview was that one of the greatest songs of all time - it is a contender for my favourite song of all time - was written by a young woman from the perspective of a child or someone barely older than a child and furthermore via her one who was aware of the festival but not there. Whatever the lyric, that is a revelation. Historically the perception has been that those who attended were effectively - as young adults - society's children with a clear statement. They were Woodstock's child.

I would have said that for decades in my own mind the entire concept of "Woodstock" seemed representative of a left-leaning liberalism. However, her reference to back-biting behind the scenes not perhaps without a side-swipe at Newport is an astute light on the advent of a competitive economic strand which evolved into what we all experience now.

When I first fell in love with the song - I have never fallen out of love with it - I was seven and there has always been a literal interpretation in my mind along with any social-political one. The garden was partially the garden of my home at that time. What the interview tells me with reference to environmentalism is that it was a personal garden for her too albeit on a broad scale which many of us went on to espouse. And I think in the scenes of togetherness and equality in those fields, the symbolism wasn't as it seemed/looked.

For all of its apparent radicalism, the counter-culture was preparing economically to abandon any post war economic consensus which tried to make society more equal, even if that consensus failed to such an extent it had to introduce the overtly commercial to replace old crumbling industry. That was, with hindsight, the darker side of the Woodstock generation. It seized on sell with enthusiasm, once it settled down, rather than seeing it as a necessary evil. In doing so, it revealed that for all of its words it had profit motives.

The song took me ultimately to Glastonbury in search of updated ideas about Attlee/Macmillan, social connection as the images of Woodstock had relayed, a garden of my childhood on a broader, communal scale, spirit and basic youthful good times. To their credit, Jean and Michael Eavis, Arabella Churchill and others there did as much as anyone could have done to turn the idea of Woodstock into reality. Regrettably those who became the new establishment opted for systems, only to some extent inadvertently, of conflict and division:

MSC - No 1, UK, 1970 - Woodstock - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIHfuihoz70
Joni Mitchell, Live '70 - Woodstock - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRjQCvfcXn0
Joni Mitchell in 2000s - Woodstock - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZyw0Dy0gYo

(Of course, the fact that so much "stuff" can criss-cross it - and the message is one of simplicity - is an absolute testament to its worth)

[johncorrigan]

Really excellent John, thank you. That proves it unequivocally. Got very carried away with Peggy Seeger last Friday and have sort of backtracked in my mind ever since without wanting to fully backtrack in respect to her. What I realize too is that when I did that 1, Seeger, 2 Mitchell, 3 Collins of living women, there was no Baez or indeed King and it may just be that there is no absolute way of assessing these things. Instinctively it is Mitchell - emotional, to be frank not without neurosis in the nicest possible way, complicated - and the more one hears the things one hasn't heard before, the more the key parallel seems to be Dylan and Mitchell. Without objectivity, Mitchell is by far and away my No.1 Woman!

:

I remember hearing Joni (and ‘Big Yellow Taxi’) for the first time, Lat. It was on BBC2TV on a programme called Disco 2 and was accompanied by, I seem to recall, a psychedelic cartoon. I loved it instantly and bought the LP ‘Ladies of the Canyon’ the next weekend, and played it to death. Then ‘Blue’ and ‘For the Roses’ and ‘Court and Spark’ and ‘Miles of Aisles’ and ‘Hissing of Summer Lawns’ and ‘Hejira’ and ‘Don Juan’s Reckless Daughter’ and ‘Mingus’. They’re all so much a part of my teens to twenties that I cannot not love her. No matter the phase in music I was going through in the 70s, Joni was non-negotiable.
Now whether she’s the most influential female artist, I’m not sure. I could make a good case for her place in the pantheon of greats. She’s certainly there with Aretha and Joan Baez and Billie and Sandy, but there are others since then that I would not have known in the 70s – Memphis Minnie, Sister Rosetta, Cesaria, Violetta, Miriam, Norma – more influential, I don’t know. Laura Nyro would be up there for me as someone who broke the mould. Judy Collins didn’t break any moulds but she helped form a few. And there are very wonderful female singers coming through at home and across the globe thanks to these greats who helped pave a way for them.
But Joni is more than a singer for me, more than a songwriter, more than a performer. She’s been a true artist, unwilling to sit still and stay the same. Even in the 80s and 90s when she was no longer making those personal gems of the early years, she was still exploring and while I didn’t await the new records with the anticipation of earlier years I nevertheless relished hearing that she was still out there, still making great music.
Only saw her once; in Edinburgh in the early 80s and that was wonderful even just to see her sway on stage. I think ‘Both Sides Now’ and ‘Travelogue’ are great additions to her discography and although it was great to get ‘Shine’ I could still do with a bit more. Maybe one day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g0PMDYjk6I

[cloughie]

I remember hearing Joni (and ‘Big Yellow Taxi’) for the first time, Lat. It was on BBC2TV on a programme called Disco 2 and was accompanied by, I seem to recall, a psychedelic cartoon. I loved it instantly and bought the LP ‘Ladies of the Canyon’ the next weekend, and played it to death. Then ‘Blue’ and ‘For the Roses’ and ‘Court and Spark’ and ‘Miles of Aisles’ and ‘Hissing of Summer Lawns’ and ‘Hejira’ and ‘Don Juan’s Reckless Daughter’ and ‘Mingus’. They’re all so much a part of my teens to twenties that I cannot not love her. No matter the phase in music I was going through in the 70s, Joni was non-negotiable.
Now whether she’s the most influential female artist, I’m not sure. I could make a good case for her place in the pantheon of greats. She’s certainly there with Aretha and Joan Baez and Billie and Sandy, but there are others since then that I would not have known in the 70s – Memphis Minnie, Sister Rosetta, Cesaria, Violetta, Miriam, Norma – more influential, I don’t know. Laura Nyro would be up there for me as someone who broke the mould. Judy Collins didn’t break any moulds but she helped form a few. And there are very wonderful female singers coming through at home and across the globe thanks to these greats who helped pave a way for them.
But Joni is more than a singer for me, more than a songwriter, more than a performer. She’s been a true artist, unwilling to sit still and stay the same. Even in the 80s and 90s when she was no longer making those personal gems of the early years, she was still exploring and while I didn’t await the new records with the anticipation of earlier years I nevertheless relished hearing that she was still out there, still making great music.
Only saw her once; in Edinburgh in the early 80s and that was wonderful even just to see her sway on stage. I think ‘Both Sides Now’ and ‘Travelogue’ are great additions to her discography and although it was great to get ‘Shine’ I could still do with a bit more. Maybe one day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g0PMDYjk6I

John, Interesting that you want a bit more and I think I agree - her evolution of ideas should not have finished. It 's also interesting that there appears to be no cutting room floor, no unreleased material from her studio albums, no bonus tracks suddenly appeared - what she's done is what we've had. This is I think been her control over her own destiny. Oh and one more thing - I guess you're a year or two younger than me because you come int a story that has already started - the first album has some gems - Night in the City, I had a king, Michael from Mountains to name but three tracks.

[Lat-Literal]

I remember hearing Joni (and ‘Big Yellow Taxi’) for the first time, Lat. It was on BBC2TV on a programme called Disco 2 and was accompanied by, I seem to recall, a psychedelic cartoon. I loved it instantly and bought the LP ‘Ladies of the Canyon’ the next weekend, and played it to death. Then ‘Blue’ and ‘For the Roses’ and ‘Court and Spark’ and ‘Miles of Aisles’ and ‘Hissing of Summer Lawns’ and ‘Hejira’ and ‘Don Juan’s Reckless Daughter’ and ‘Mingus’. They’re all so much a part of my teens to twenties that I cannot not love her. No matter the phase in music I was going through in the 70s, Joni was non-negotiable.
Now whether she’s the most influential female artist, I’m not sure. I could make a good case for her place in the pantheon of greats. She’s certainly there with Aretha and Joan Baez and Billie and Sandy, but there are others since then that I would not have known in the 70s – Memphis Minnie, Sister Rosetta, Cesaria, Violetta, Miriam, Norma – more influential, I don’t know. Laura Nyro would be up there for me as someone who broke the mould. Judy Collins didn’t break any moulds but she helped form a few. And there are very wonderful female singers coming through at home and across the globe thanks to these greats who helped pave a way for them.
But Joni is more than a singer for me, more than a songwriter, more than a performer. She’s been a true artist, unwilling to sit still and stay the same. Even in the 80s and 90s when she was no longer making those personal gems of the early years, she was still exploring and while I didn’t await the new records with the anticipation of earlier years I nevertheless relished hearing that she was still out there, still making great music.
Only saw her once; in Edinburgh in the early 80s and that was wonderful even just to see her sway on stage. I think ‘Both Sides Now’ and ‘Travelogue’ are great additions to her discography and although it was great to get ‘Shine’ I could still do with a bit more. Maybe one day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g0PMDYjk6I

Interesting memories, John, and I completely agree with your comment that "she’s been a true artist, unwilling to sit still and stay the same". It must have been wonderful to have seen her live. My comments were an off the top of my head attempt at selecting the most significant living female artist. I didn't make a very good job of it. Laura Nyro was an interesting singer, I agree with your other selections and we have a similar sort of time line on the "post 1970s" artists. The 1970s was not an album buying decade in the main given my age and the radio was very singles orientated. Obviously "Both Sides Now" is a first time memory - the Collins version - and there were bits and pieces of Joni's albums in friends' older siblings cars. "In France They Kiss On Main Street". I knew that one at the time and also earlier "I'm a Radio". The album that was handed to me on about three occasions in the early 1980s was "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" and I was struck by the worldly "The Jungle Line". Most of her albums are in my collection now. Like your link!

[johncorrigan]

Here's a review of the reworking of Joni's Hejira, 'Pilgrimer' which happened at Celtic Connections in January and which I noticed on Joni's website.

http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=3215

Still haven't noticed any film of the occasion appearing anywhere.

[Globaltruth]

Here's a review of the reworking of Joni's Hejira, 'Pilgrimer' which happened at Celtic Connections in January and which I noticed on Joni's website.

http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=3215

Still haven't noticed any film of the occasion appearing anywhere.

Thanks JC - I would still v much like to hear it... here's hoping

[johncorrigan]

Nice to hear that Joni's been spotted in public for the first time since her aneurysm 18 months back. Still looking quite frail mind you.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/joni-mitchell-concert-attendance-1.3731252

[Globaltruth]

Nice to hear that Joni's been spotted in public for the first time since her aneurysm 18 months back. Still looking quite frail mind you.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/joni-mit...ance-1.3731252

Thanks for sharing this Jc, wondered what was happening.