otherness again

**johncorrigan** · 22-01-11, 16:18

Thanks a lot for the reminder Calum - beautiful!

**Lateralthinking1** · 22-01-11, 19:07

An interesting, informative, article - it helps, among other things, to bring further context to Victor Jara to me - and a striking song that is strongly performed.

**aka Calum Da Jazbo** · 23-01-11, 12:52

i detest Adorno but some elements of his insight into the corruption of art by the music 'industry' must be acknowledged .... in these days of desert sessions etc it is getting hard to discriminate i find ... how to take the Buena Vista phenomena and eg Paul SImon Gracelands ....well since the music kills me i am tolerant but find that getting past the commercial/wider access/exposure stuff is essential because the real thrill is always back in the undiluted form and presentation ... yet in parts of African music the real form and presentation has internalised the rock/dance/disco presentation of Eu and US markets ... to make £$ [good luck to them] but i find myself very unmoved by much contemporary African music making .... [unless it is the Cape Town BASS]

i dunno it is confusing, follow the thrill eh ....

**Lateralthinking1** · 23-01-11, 19:55

Calum, I don't have the depth of knowledge to comment on Adorno but your post prompted me to have a quick look at him. As soon as I did so, it became immediately obvious that he was very involved. The very idea of a fifteen minute assessment of him was completely ludicrous! But most of us have roots and most were raised inevitably with reference to commercial culture. For me, it is unsurprising that I should have ears which are most at home emotionally with the less diluted as long as that has what some might see as access in. This reflects my background. Really undiluted music can be more of a good challenge. I increasingly value it. Actually voice has always been an important measure of quality for me so I am not swimming against my tide in that sense. I would choose it every time above pap and plasticity.

In fact, like you, I detest the over-commercialism of everything now and have done for many years. My drift away from many of the commercial aspects of music seemed once to have almost inadvertently coincided with wider changes in the economy but I doubt now that it was wholly coincidence. There was always a political strand to my enjoyment or non-enjoyment of music. What strikes me with the spotty lists is just how much stuff there is out there. There really is an awful amount of fodder from around the world that can be pretty easily dismissed for being one of, say, just five things. That's yet another American style indie rock thing, another very standard hip-hop track, another so-called R and B output and so on. From the States, from Poland, from Singapore, from China for goodness sake. It is like the international production of sugar or butter and it seems to far exceed even the quantity of easy listening produced in the sixties. I can tell in about a second or two if it has anything of note to offer and mostly I steer clear of it for greater authenticity. In fact, sometimes in this climate what seemed very commercial in the sixties now has in its production and, yes, innovation, some sort of charm and almost authentic appeal. As for songcraft, wasn't it once a bit, well, obvious in many respects, whereas now it often seems to be a rare thing?

Unlike you, I do find pleasure and interest in many of the present day cross-cultural musical approaches. While I fully recognise that a Parisian production of Africa is not necessarily "a good thing", I don't find that such matters are easily boxed off in that way. Sometimes it detracts for me and sometimes it enhances. When a western style production of an "international artist" goes wrong, it is, of course, seriously bad. I am still trying to accommodate, for example, that second album by Sa Ding Ding but I don't think I will be making huge efforts to do so. You mention Buena Vista Social Club which, Ry Cooder aside, was to my mind fairly undiluted and AfroCubism is more so even if it combines two outlooks. Here, I guess, we are talking about the packaging, the promotion, the hard sell. Age has taught me to be cautious of that industry but I also know that we wouldn't hear it otherwise.

This is the time to introduce what might be a slightly gobsmacking point. I am of the impression that many on this forum have travelled far and very good luck to them. Other than one brief trip by coach with my parents, I first set foot outside this country two years after Graceland at the age of 25. My first flight on a plane took place when I was 28 and to this day I have never been further than Europe. While it must be terrific to hear music from around the world in its own environment, for many of us of a certain era, background, income, set of responsibilities and perhaps character, the nearest we will ever get to it is via cds or the radio. Sometimes, on a summers night, I have stood in the garden looking across the hills here with music playing quietly in the background. I have almost had to imagine I was in Senegal or Argentina or Jamaica. Clearly the gift of undiluted music needs some sort of packaging to reach us at all and in doing so it can provide almost for a sense of social equality inside Britain. - Lat.

**aka Calum Da Jazbo** · 23-01-11, 21:50

Hi Lat

i heard the most exciting live south american music in london, and one evening here in the middle kingdom! yep i've travelled and it narrows the mind wonderfully, northern europe is just fine with me ....
i think what i was trying to say was that even if it was packaged, if the thrill is there i'm up for it ..... and i have no objections to musicians earning a living ...

there are many instances in jazz of xover combinations and ensembles, some of them outstanding

more later ...

**Serial_Apologist** · 23-01-11, 23:07

You are mindful of your carbon footprint, Lateralthinking 1, and that is welcome.

S-A

**Lateralthinking1** · 23-01-11, 23:34

Yes, all good stuff. I haven't been out of this country - and then only for a day in Belgium - since early 2006. Calum - I get it and you are quite right. It might be helpful if I explored the London venues more as I did a lot in the eighties and the nineties. Do tend to veer to the festivals these days - more space, sky and trees. If very lucky, surprises too.

I referred to five repetitive boxes and mentioned just three. You can add the bpm euro thing as the fourth although dance, trance, ambient, whatever, can be terrific on the rare occasions that it actually does something novel. As for number five, drugged out sounding guys and girls - and here I really do blame Britain. Many of them sound like 78 year old 5 year olds, clapped out and struggling for a voice, let alone having any chance of soul or musical sensibility. "Proper" singer-songwriters they are not!

**aka Calum Da Jazbo** · 08-02-11, 14:35

you might miss Paul's prompt about late junction tonite [cos it's on an obscure jazz thread] when Max is playing several tracks of music from Chile, including two by Violetta Parra

**johncorrigan** · 08-02-11, 15:13

Thanks Calum, I'll be there - I did miss Paul's obscure reference - must get out more!

**Paul Sherratt** · 08-02-11, 15:24

Can't go west, can't go east, I'm stuck in Minneapolis with a fuel pump* that's deceased.
That's my excuse for misdirections today. I did tell the psychologist in the garage waiting area
about the Parra fest - poor chap thought he was just popping out for an MOT on his day off

*Artistic licence. It was a water pump.

otherness again

otherness again

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