Simon's Graceland

[johncorrigan]

On 'Today' on R4 this morning a rather terse interview with Paul Simon where the interviewer was trying to get him to admit he was wrong in going to South Africa to make 'Graceland'.......and all because it's about 25 years since its release.....can't believe it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01hw7yw
I remember telling one of my pals he needed to listen to it, and only after some persuasion he played it and said, 'I never thought I'd ever listen to a Paul Simon record, never mind think it's great!' Still sounds incredibly fresh now.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

hear hear it is a great album ... and what is missed in the R4 type snide commentary are the views of the South African musicians involved ...

how stale and tiresome of R4

[Lateralthinking1]

Well, the 25th anniversary was back in August 2011. The project was supported by the United Nations Anti-Apartheid Committee if not by the ANC. It wasn't exactly playing Sun City was it? In many respects it was the opposite, being a collaborative affair.

What a lame interview. If Radio 4 really had to focus on past politics - the only exception being that very stale question about ever performing again with Art Garfunkel - they could at least have provided balance by adding commentary on the album's immense legacy. Perhaps the interviewer was completely out of her depth. It sounded like that to me.

As for McLaren - who they didn't pick up on when PS mentioned him - I very much liked him as a maverick but not wholly for his amorality. He was a magpie. Many consider that the sampling of the Mahotella Queens was theft. There was no theft with Graceland. That is an important distinction even if in the former case people were perhaps a bit too po-faced about the sampling.

Plus, much as AG is to be applauded - a terrific voice in his prime - it really is an insult to Paul Simon to ignore his extensive solo catalogue. Now 70 he has never failed to deliver. Maybe it was expecting too much to want "Still Crazy....." etc to be mentioned.

However, both "So Beautiful and So What" and "Surprise" were very strong albums, commercially successful and critically acclaimed. They were released just one year ago and six years ago respectively.

[johncorrigan]

Well, the 25th anniversary was back in August 2011. The project was supported by the United Nations Anti-Apartheid Committee if not by the ANC. It wasn't exactly playing Sun City was it? In many respects it was the opposite, being a collaborative affair.

What a lame interview. If Radio 4 really had to focus on past politics - the only exception being that very stale question about ever performing again with Art Garfunkel - they could at least have provided balance by adding commentary on the album's legacy. Perhaps the interviewer was completely out of her depth. It sounded like that to me.

And much as AG is to be applauded - a terrific voice in his prime - it really is an insult to Paul Simon who at 70 has never failed to deliver. Both "So Beautiful and So What" and "Surprise" were very strong albums, commercially successful, critically acclaimed and released in the last six years.

You mean it's even older than 25, Lat.

I agree completely - PS still keeps moving on - I liked that thing he said - he doesn't mind doing a re-visit, but really he's more interested in making new stuff, and it would seem AG isn't part of that - much as I loved a lot of the duo's output, I think Paul Simon has done more of interest since they split than they did as a duo.

[Lateralthinking1]

I agree completely - PS still keeps moving on - I liked that thing he said - he doesn't mind doing a re-visit, but really he's more interested in making new stuff, and it would seem AG isn't part of that - much as I loved a lot of the duo's output, I think Paul Simon has done more of interest since they split than they did as a duo.

Yes, Simon and Garfunkel get an A double plus from me and Paul Simon as a solo performer gets an A double plus.
I think he deserves far more credit than he generally gets. There's surely at least five more fantastic albums to come.

Absolutely love "Wartime Prayers":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uzvj8C4nbo

[Flosshilde]

What a lame interview. If Radio 4 really had to focus on past politics - the only exception being that very stale question about ever performing again with Art Garfunkel - they could at least have provided balance by adding commentary on the album's immense legacy.

It was somewhat controversial at the time, taking place during the cultural boycott of South Africa. Simon's response - along the lines that he didn't go into the politics too deeply as he wanted to do it anyway - suggests that he wasn't too bothered about breaking the boycott.

What was/is its 'legacy'? Anything like the Olymic Games 'legacy'?

[Globaltruth]

Anything like the Olymic Games 'legacy'?

that & The Jungle Line track from Joni Mitchell's album the Hissing of Summer Lawns are considered by some to have been the first time that so-called 'World Music' (WM) was bought to the attention of 'mainstream' listeners & made it easier to get WM listened to. Possibly.

But instead of descending into a pointless discussion of terms, motive or opinion, let's just enjoy Mr Leonard Cohen & Mr Herbie Hancock doing a cracking version of that very tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VYexsuysTQ

It certainly has some energy, possibly even atomic...

[Flosshilde]

that & The Jungle Line track from Joni Mitchell's album the Hissing of Summer Lawns are considered by some to have been the first time that so-called 'World Music' (WM) was bought to the attention of 'mainstream' listeners & made it easier to get WM listened to. Possibly.

As I thought - just like the Olympic Games 'legacy'.

But instead of descending into a pointless discussion of terms, motive or opinion

In other words, just ignore the politics, like Paul Simon did.

[Quarky]

I'm sure that I have heard in the preceding week or so - may be on a Late Junction programme? - another item on Paul Simon and Gracelands, but approaching it more from the musical angle, and the incorporation of African music into Pauls Simon's compositions - unfortunately half asleep at the time. But as I'm sure is realised, there is a film on release:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/under-african-skies-sundance-review-paul-simon-graceland-283939

[jayne lee wilson]

The Call Me Al video with Chevy Chase is pure joy!

[johncorrigan]

But as I'm sure is realised, there is a film on release:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/rev...aceland-283939

That explains things a bit better, OB. But from the film review I get the impression that we may not be any wiser re who knew what and when - according to Simon he wanted to go because he heard these faves' of that other PS (who all too seldom drops by for a visit these days.)
- it was their instrumental version of Gumboots that he heard apparently rather than this cracker - wouldn't mind hearing their go at Gumboots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoKQctrIv_E

[Beef Oven]

On 'Today' on R4 this morning a rather terse interview with Paul Simon where the interviewer was trying to get him to admit he was wrong in going to South Africa to make 'Graceland'.......and all because it's about 25 years since its release.....can't believe it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01hw7yw
I remember telling one of my pals he needed to listen to it, and only after some persuasion he played it and said, 'I never thought I'd ever listen to a Paul Simon record, never mind think it's great!' Still sounds incredibly fresh now.

I suppose I am in the minority when I say that I tried with this album and gave up after about 18 months. I haven't played it for 23 years and six months!!!

[Lateralthinking1]

I am going to have another bite at the apple here. Nothing is intended personally. I usually agree with most other contributors on this thread. However, as Wikipedia explains, it was Sun City that was the focus of campaigning by musicians in the mid-1980s. Until that time, nearly all of the discussion of the cultural boycott had centred on sport, books and films. Steven Van Zandt formed Artists Against Apartheid (AAA) in 1985. His influences were rights issues linked to his own Native American background; new developments in regard to South Africa, including a state of emergency; and Live Aid which took place, funnily enough on my graduation day, in July 1985. Arguably, the many artists who signed up to the cause were almost exclusively focussed on Sun City, vowing never to play there. Their record on that theme was a Top 40 hit in the United States in December 1985. As far as I am aware, Sun City was never a feature of the emerging Graceland project. Paul Simon had taken an entirely different route.



The Boycott

The recording of Graceland commenced two months before the Sun City single was a hit. Almost certainly, it was an advanced concept many months before Live Aid and the formation of AAA. Unlike the United Nations Anti-Apartheid Committee which supported Paul Simon's project, the AAA was not a legal entity even in 1986, the year that Graceland was released. While then Graceland was in line with the UN, it didn't contravene other conventions or laws. Very shortly before it was released, I was among the 20,000 on Clapham Common for the Freedom Beat event which was held as a statement against apartheid. There musicians as diverse as Gary Kemp and Gil Scott-Heron performed to a multiracial crowd. At the time, that coming together was not considered to be in opposition to AAA objectives but rather complimentary. With hindsight, it had a more powerful impact than simply spurning a thoroughly revolting entertainment resort. Incidentally, it is worth bearing in mind that while Sun City was often described as exclusively white, it was actually multiracial and aimed purely at the well-heeled, most of whom quite obviously were white.



The Collaboration

That concert on the common in the summer of 1986 engaged artists of different backgrounds and proved very engaging to a diverse audience. It also led on to Nelson Mandela's 70th Birthday Event in 1988. By that time, the demands of the organisers of both events were broad and wholly in line with those of the ANC - sanctions against South Africa, the release of all political prisoners, and the end of all apartheid. While back in early 1985, Paul Simon had not set out to be overtly political - very few musicians had done - it was in many ways the Graceland project that helped to establish a collaborative approach. That approach was then placed at least on the same level as the cultural boycott. While all aspects of the cultural boycott had helped to put some pressure on the South African Government, it hadn't been a stunning success on its own. It had been attempted to varying degrees of success since the 1960s but sportsmen in particular had been very unreliable and the old regime was firmly in place.



Cultural Co-operation

Indeed, it had taken all of that time - two decades - for the music industry to come round to taking on board any of the major themes. Unlike their counterparts in other artistic fields, most musicians had really dragged their feet. As is well documented. all of the following artists played at least once at Sun City - Dame Kiri Te Kanawa, Elaine Page, Frank Sinatra, Queen, Elton John, Sarah Brightman, Roxette, Julio Iglesias, The O'Jays, Boney M, Black Sabbath, Rod Stewart, Tina Turner, Dionne Warwick and Laura Branigan. There were no doubt many more. Mildly I would like to suggest that we look there first for the "wilfully ignorant". And before we single out Paul Simon here, we might also note some of the other key strands in the history. Johnny Clegg, a white Lancastrian who had lived mainly in South Africa, had been performing in multiracial groups since 1969. The lyrics of those groups were frequently political, if understandably not always transparent. And of course in 1982 Womad had commenced in Britain. In a nebulous way, it too really set the scene for Graceland and similar events for what became termed "cultural co-operation".



The Broader Legacy

As for legacy, very soon after Graceland was released, we got to hear more of the Bhundu Boys and many other African artists. "World Music" as a term arrived in 1987. A new musical dynamic was fully established at that point. International collaboration has often been a key feature to this day. Admittedly, the Sun City project raised more than a million dollars for anti-apartheid projects and it later inspired Johnny Clegg to create a local organization similar to Van Zandt's. However, this really goes to show that in the 1980s there had been two musical flanks - boycott and cooperation - that, being largely complimentary, would inevitably merge. Both had some impact on Mandela's ultimate release amidst the wider politics of it all. If anything, the AAA came round to the idea of greater involvement. Ultimately, as most South Africans knew, that was the way forward and it surely was and is the Graceland way. I think I would argue that a few fringe members of today's ANC are overly influential in terms of international media coverage. They really need to address today's battles. Obviously it would be helpful if broadcasters and film makers didn't lazily mislead, possibly on their behalf, in the name of political correctness. The South Africa I see still badly needs positive assistance.

[Globaltruth]

In other words, just ignore the politics, like Paul Simon did.

Absolutely - this is the World Music forum, the place for that kind of discussion is Platform 3, a knockabout area kindly provided by FF for just such activity, although on this thread a thoughtful, heartfelt and well-researched post from Lat has brought this thread to a graceful conclusion..

From my experience and as perhaps you know,Flosshilde, there are 3 topics guaranteed to cause heated & pointless debate on any forum - politics is one.

[johncorrigan]

a thoughtful, heartfelt and well-researched post from Lat has brought this thread to a graceful conclusion.

Indeed - once again I am fascinated by your response Lat - in days to come somebody will gather a 'Best of Lat - musings on an MB in music, Latlife and footie' (better not mention the P word).

But I am still thinking about something the other PS said on Today yesterday, which was that Malcolm McLaren was there in Soweto just ahead of him and nobody seemed to mind - do you think that McLaren got away with it because folk thought,'Well he doesn't give a damn anyway, whereas PS should know better!' Just wondering!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLUYhREEDM0