Lopa's Wo3

[Globaltruth]

r3 doesn't seem too keen on spontaneity in their World Music/Late Junction productions - that's part of the problem; you end up with the broadcasters who will accept that particular straitjacket.

Perhaps that's what is needed - more live radio.

A thoughtful post JC - I re-read it, but could find no dodgy word plays, obtuse refs nor assertations of how this affects your position in the Scotch () Parliament.

[Paul Sherratt]

But it clearly affects life in a Scotch sitting room.

[Globaltruth]

on r3 right now?
Jarvis Cocker.
Apart from the 'who'd ever a thought it' quotient being high...he is
Also a natural broadcaster - wonder if he'd like a bash at this Wo3 gig?

[johncorrigan]

r3 doesn't seem too keen on spontaneity in their World Music/Late Junction productions - that's part of the problem; you end up with the broadcasters who will accept that particular straitjacket.
Perhaps that's what is needed - more live radio.

I agree - I know that Paul has said in the past that AK's later shows were recorded, but at least they sounded like they were live and alive - it would be good if Max had a text or two - liike those brilliant pretend ones that Bob had in Theme Time.

A thoughtful post JC - I re-read it, but could find no dodgy word plays, obtuse refs nor assertations of how this affects your position in the Scotch () Parliament.

Global, I haven't been hanging about on these boards for the last couple of years and not learned a thing or two about presenting a premise or constructing an argument from masters like your good self with such an inordinately high command of the Englch language.

[Lateralthinking1]

What musically links the following numbers - 1, 4, 7, 13, 18, 19, 21, 1977, 1982, 8701?

Ivor list. It came to me when I returned from Morrisons and was putting the tins into position.

Nick Gold, Jah Wobble, Don Letts, Rankin Miss P, Robin Denselow.

But personally I wouldn't choose any of them.

"I'm not a man but a frog
I don't know why I love the greeny blue
A lion cross-eyed couldn't live in this grog
But, Cousin Henry, I do."

[ian russell]

Spontaneity?

r3 doesn't seem too keen on spontaneity

A funny thing happened on the way home from North Wales two weeks ago. There was opera on Radio 3, which I don't get, the missus doesn't like Radio 4, so I had to endure Radio 2. Imagine my surprise when Tony Blackburn came on!

To say he hasn't changed a bit would be like saying the sun hasn't changed a bit (yes, it was Prof. Brian Cox on Radio 4) or comparing the Earth's orbit today with that of 1971. (Okay, I only realised afterwards that there were no Blackburn jokes. He has matured slightly). The shocking thing was how professional he sounded by Radio 2 standards (not that high!, I hear you call). I must say I almost admire the man: there isn't an ounce of spite in him, and he sounds like he loves what he does. Absolutely.

So, how did we get from there to here? Enduring the likes of Chris Evans, Stuart Maconie, Jonathan Ross, the fat, gay one off the telly, and Lily Savage in civvies, then back to TB.

I have no idea. I stopped listening while Tony's P45 was still firmly attached to the tree.

*
I haven't listened to World on 3 (still sounds like a current affairs programme) for a long time. Is it any good? Oh and I see Verity's back with LJ. She must have had a word with Tony.

[Lateralthinking1]

Do you know, Ian, I almost agree. TB would once have been seen as the perfect example of Radio Glib. From the perspective of night time Peel and Jensen, you could easily understand it, and there were others in their line of fire. In fact, all of daytime Radio 1. I do as best as I can to look at presenters in the light of broadcasting, rather than in terms of personalities, but this elides with the personalities too to some degree. In terms of the latter, a consistent approach is always a big plus point- it suggests "genuine" - while one would hope that the sound of radio overall changes and develops fairly quickly (though not 3 and 4 - at least radically!).

Much as I very much admired Peel, and see him as having been one of the standard bearers, it was always tempting to consider the anomalies - the sudden shift in late 1976, Home Truths on Radio 4, and a big fan of Eurovision. None of these things were to be condemned. Rather they reinforced his unusual position of being in the tradition of Reith and yet quite the opposite. By contrast, and here the shift in gear is less digestible, consider where Jensen sits "smoothly" now.

Like many, he is where Bates happens to be, loathed by many, but I would say this in Bates's favour. He has always been the same and this indeed is the Blackburn point but it goes further. They epitomise two distinct eras of music broadcasting that at the time, and crucially for a brief while, were strikingly original and, yes, entertaining.

The 60s were very "radio" indeed - that whole post-pirate thing was a performance and reflected the joy of radio's own expansion. The 70s and early 80s were a rather strange mixture of the remaining parts of it, lesser versions of it and a new American FM-ism, certainly here in London with Capital. Those who now watch the audience figures closely would never have agreed to it conceptually. It didn't sound like London and yet it managed somehow to sound like London if London had been radio. It added to the city by not simply being the sound of the street and celebrity or the Cutty Sark.

The hints of mid-atlanticism were mainly to be overturned by 1977 - punk and probably disco more so. The music selections before that period were in truth frequently questionable. However, I have always had some admiration for that style of presentation. Roger Scott, for example, is very high in my own Hall of Fame. An enthusiast, and a professional, he would, if he were alive, be doing the same now as he always did, but one wonders if there would have been a place for him.

Changes occurred in music radio with people like Rod Lucas, good in his day, now of some notoriety, who introduced several new broadcasting styles, including the one popularised by Steve Wright. Loads of people in the studio a-whoopin and a-hollerin. While it makes sense for Wright today to do much the same thing, this format should have largely disappeared by the early 1990s. Instead, it was combined with the new lads and ladettes - Evans, Ball etc - and continued on into eternity. Now everyone could think that they were listening to a lot of their mates. Erm, yes, but what about the fact that this is supposed to be radio?

And it is much, much, worse now. Any 21 year old gets a slot, they sound 21, and that's a big problem. Not for the occasional programme. Of course, not. Certainly, though, as the defining, hackneyed, style. Add in a bit of B-celebrity stuff - is this really all the innovation that anyone can find? - and as you suggest, it is all a huge turn-off. Most of it, anyway.

What joined the numbers? The answer is that they are the only numbers to have served as the titles of UK Number 1 albums, as follows: 1 – The Beatles, 4 – Beyonce (as of yesterday), 7 – S Club 7, 13 – Blur, 18 – Moby, 19 – Adele, 21 – Adele,
1977 – Ash, 1982 – Status Quo, 8701 – Usher. And three of them are in the chart this week. Not a lot of people know that!

[johncorrigan]

What musically links the following numbers - 1, 4, 7, 13, 18, 19, 21, 1977, 1982, 8701?

Ivor list. It came to me when I returned from Morrisons and was putting the tins into position.

Nick Gold, Jah Wobble, Don Letts, Rankin Miss P, Robin Denselow.

But personally I wouldn't choose any of them.

"I'm not a man but a frog
I don't know why I love the greeny blue
A lion cross-eyed couldn't live in this grog
But, Cousin Henry, I do."

Is this the Ivor-list you're talking about Lat? - I might sign up.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ivor-list/

[Lateralthinking1]

That looks good JC. I always enjoy a lively Yahoo group. I have a few Ivor Cutler cds, including the aforementioned "Life In a A Scotch Sitting Room" but the Volume 2 one. That is the one that starts with Episodes 2,3 and 9 and ends with Episodes 13 and 0. There are no connections between these numbers as far as I can see although I have been studying it for many years. I have less information about the Volume 1 one.

And speaking of Roger Scott - it was a really rotten shame that he died so young - were you aware that his father, Derek, was part of an early double act with the great Tony Hancock and also wrote the Hancock tune? He then became big at ATV and even wrote music for the Muppets as well as a lot of serious stuff. In his final days, he was a part of the Southwold posse, directing the Summer Festival and productions at St Edmund's Church.

(Before I leave Capital - which had in the 1970s, gasp, separate programmes for rock, jazz, classical, soul, reggae, world music and folk, plus broadcasts for children and church goers - for a bit of cheering up and memories of when bad first meant good, here are the World's Worst Wireless Shows in their entirety, with helpful editorial notes - http://www.chronoglide.com/wwwshome.html)

[Globaltruth]

Wasn't a certain Charlie Gillette also on Capital Radio at that time? Not playing WM though.

One of the best shows ever was when they imported Wolfman Jack for a guest show or two.
Shame he's not around any more, he could do wonders for Wo3.


Now - where was Mr Sherratt...all at sea?

[ian russell]

Do you know, Ian, I almost agree....

What joined the numbers? The answer is that they are the only numbers to have served as the titles of UK Number 1 albums, as follows: 1 – The Beatles, 4 – Beyonce (as of yesterday), 7 – S Club 7, 13 – Blur, 18 – Moby, 19 – Adele, 21 – Adele,
1977 – Ash, 1982 – Status Quo, 8701 – Usher. And three of them are in the chart this week. Not a lot of people know that!

You've brought up a few names I'd forgotten. I don't know whether thanks are in order or not. Bates - what happened to him? There was a Smith, I dimly recall, and a Reid(?) (didn't he take against Frankie goes To Hollywood).

All before DJs got cynical and nasty. I think it was a gradual slide in reality, probably beginning with the relatively benign, in hindsight, Edmonds, who Peel once implied had no profound interest in records other than their potential for making his fortune. Maybe TB owes his change of fortune in part to the Ross-Brand incident.

Sorry, I hadn't meant to interrupt your quiz question.

[Paul Sherratt]

Now, for some reason ian, ' T B Sheets ' keeps coming to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX5Y3cmtMEs

[johncorrigan]

Here's a fine TB, http://www.kasterborus.com/tardis/fo...er/tbaker4.jpg

[Lateralthinking1]

Ian - Just to confirm - yes, Charlie was on Capital, though not at the outset, and he did play a lot of world music. David Rodigan did reggae, Brian Rust jazz, Greg Edwards soul, Richard Digance folk, with live performances in the foyer, and Nicky Horne did the rock stuff. Some argue that after Peel, Scott was among the first to play punk because he had a Peoples Choice where the listeners voted for their own top ten each day. Dave Cash was the person who drafted the original auditions, hence the FM-ish style, although as has been indicated that was just the starting point. Everett was allowed a place automatically because of his unique way. Many came to it from a brief time in North American radio a la Peel and then the extraordinary United Biscuits Network (UBN), almost a national radio station for workers in biscuit factories, with huge amounts of technical equipment and know-how.

To get this back to Radio 3, I have asked what Late Junction is, and suggested some changes to the mix. This does not mean the criticism that it might imply. I actually think that it is a breath of fresh air for its range and experimentation. Max in particular is a presenter I take to increasingly. What I would argue - and here is an obvious reference across to 6Music too, which very fortunately is not XFM - is that the assumptions being made in the boardrooms about what leads to an improvement of 0.2% on RAJAR are bogus and yet, depressingly, have now become a truism. Sure these are different times but there will always be carpets, caravans and coffee. The whole notion of what is best in sales terms is defined by the industry. You can either react to what audiences appear to want, as they do now, or provide a bit of shaping and direction. It seems to me that the national broadcaster has the most fundamental role. It sells out by adjusting to current commercial norms in its broadcasting; encourages stagnancy.

Capital in the 1970s was very far from perfect. Arguably it was BBC Radio London, and later GLR, which showed what local radio could really achieve - and for the full picture in London at that time, you would also need to consider LBC as it was then, with its programmes for black Londoners and in the Asian languages. Notably during that era, their combined audience figures were way in excess of those of Radio 1 in London. In fact, the figures for Capital alone were much higher than those for Radio 1. The Clash had their particular take on it - that don't impress me much - and it was never going to have been anything other than very commercial. Nevertheless, it probably showed that commercialism didn't have to be as now - "A Woman In Love" - that must mean I'm on Smooth then"; "Mario Biondi - this is Jazz FM" etc. The same is true of local radio, national radio, any kind of radio. At least 3 is doing its bit to change the wallpaper. It could probably do much more on innovation and be what it is but more so.

Incidentally, much as I enjoy Adolf Hitler's favourite singer, Zarah Leander, and the LSP produced disaster that is "Spinning Wheel", Paralyzed by the Legendary Stardust Cowboy, amazingly featuring T-Bone Burnett, still just about wins the award for me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOnzjmZaxhA - even if Mark E Smith puts it into a different light historically. The incredible mess that is the English version of 29 Septembre by Equipe 84 comes close - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KZ0_AQTBxU. "A miss is as good as a mile" as they say but then you have to remind yourself that Cuddly Ken liked Chris Rainbow and Christopher Cross. Part of the fun of it is in locating the few records that he didn't understand could be considered genuinely good. - Lat.

[ian russell]

Ian - Just to confirm - yes, Charlie was on Capital, though not at the outset, and he did play a lot of world music. David Rodigan did reggae, Brian Rust jazz, Greg Edwards soul, Richard Digance folk, with live performances in the foyer, and Nicky Horne did the rock stuff. Some argue that after Peel, Scott was among the first to play punk because he had a Peoples Choice where the listeners voted for their own top ten each day. Dave Cash was the person who drafted the original auditions, hence the FM-ish style, although as has been indicated that was just the starting point. Everett was allowed a place automatically because of his unique way. Many came to it from a brief time in North American radio a la Peel and then the extraordinary United Biscuits Network (UBN), almost a national radio station for workers in biscuit factories, with huge amounts of technical equipment and know-how.

Whassit? Erm, someone else asked for this, not me (though I remember Rodigan's show with fondness). No harm done.

I've just listened to Wo3, after a year's avoidance, and thought it weren't half bad. That sufi chap's band really got a groove on in places. I actually preferred this singer, Hans Raj Hans, to the more famous Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, who I could only bear in small doses, something he wasn't going to give me in all the times I heard him. I'm looking out for Hans Raj Hans in future (he's even got a better name!)