Some people don't go for prunes...

[Globaltruth]

Here's four World Music pieces of (non) pablum you may be interested in...

* Download a free track from Samba Touré - protege of Ali Farka Toure

http://t.co/zO0mYTi

* Donate to Cheb i Sabbah's fund - he has stomach cancer, poor feller

http://chebisabbah.org/

* Listen to this (new to me) artist from the Sudan, Amira Kheir talking about her debut album View from Somewhere

http://t.co/W3qoH5I

* Book a ticket to see Toots, with the Maytals, he will be touring the UK from the end of the month.
Remember http://t.co/o79ZvtV

[Globaltruth]

Oh yes, I think there were some comments about the World Service closing down their World of Music show.

Well the presenter who took over from CG has taken matters into his own hands...

http://www.worldmusic.net/news/news/2011-08-17/mark-coles-world-of-music-show-continues-in-a-shed/

and the show is here

http://www.markcolesmusic.com/Portfolio.php

Now whether it's good or bad is up for discussion.... (self-styled 'quirky' music alert)

[Globaltruth]

Oh yes, I think there were some comments about the World Service closing down their World of Music show.

Well the presenter who took over from CG has taken matters into his own hands...

http://www.worldmusic.net/news/news/2011-08-17/mark-coles-world-of-music-show-continues-in-a-shed/

and the show is here

http://www.markcolesmusic.com/Portfolio.php

Now whether it's good or bad is up for discussion.... (self-styled 'quirky' music alert)

Hey, I'm liking this solo thread - I've now listened to his current show.

His chatty down-home style may take me a while to get used to (talk about flogging that 'shed' theme to death - move on there, move on), but the music he plays is almost universally CLASS.

Paolo Conte? tick
Mercedes Sousa? tick
Bjork's 'Crystalline' remixed (this worked, here it is on Spotify) tick

On the basis of one show, and reserving the right to nit-pick ad nauseam, RECOMMENDED

But why only 30 mins?

I would welcome at least of hour of this.

BBC World Service's loss is the internets' gain.

And I think he's just moved above Lopa in my personal listening order.

[johncorrigan]

I listened to Mark a couple of times after they stopped running repeats of Charlie's old shows on 'World of Music'. The difficulty with that programme was finding it. I'll have a listen - I imagine he thinks he might be able to sell the show around if he makes a half hour slot. I still think it was pretty daft of the World Service to bin such a programme - another celebration by the beeb of the legacy of Charlie (say great things about him and then get rid of his shows) - I know my sister enjoyed listening to it but who cares about a bunch of islanders halfway across the globe.

[Globaltruth]

Agreed JC, I'm interested in yr thoughts on the prog, I was pleased to find it, and wish Mark success in hawking it around - real sign of the times stuff, BBC makes yet another wrongheaded decision, lone dj sets off on his own. Deserves support but still we must, of course retain our critical facility. I'm already wondering what his position on folk and Americana is...

[johncorrigan]

I'll lay a dollar to a doughnut he's old school worldy, Global - though given my record on such fronts I won't expect much jam in!

By the way, what's Pablum got to do with the price of porridge?

[Globaltruth]

A cad over on Platform 3 dismissed all world music as 'pablum'.

So I thought we should have a thread to commemorate.


Ps am in another bit of the world, but not expecting much music

[johncorrigan]

A cad over on Platform 3 dismissed all world music as 'pablum'.

So I thought we should have a thread to commemorate.


Ps am in another bit of the world, but not expecting much music

Global, I discovered Platform 3 the other day when 'great rock and pop albums' got shifted there ( I don't get out much) - it's a kind of room 101 as far as I can see - I prefer platform nine and three quarters. Meanwhile when you're elsewhere you might see if you can catch up with JG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oieG0DHfISE&feature=fvst

[Lateralthinking1]

Where to start? Perhaps the FoR3 Aims - http://www.for3.org/about/aims/aims.html. I assume that most on this forum agree with them. Most importantly, this bit: "and to acknowledge an obligation to build an audience for the content rather than alter the content to build an audience". That doesn't say "and to return to the battle of 2001" nor indeed to the earlier version of it in the 1970s with Stephen Hearst over "Sounds Interesting". Of course, people will go at it from their individual perspectives. Fair enough to an extent. Effective consensus though depends on largely accepting the programmes as they have been in the last few years and having a general wish to maintain and raise the standard. That is where I am and I'm not intending to be anywhere else.

The pop point. Having witnessed now how frequently the pop spectre is raised, and the tensions it causes, I say this. First, I fully understand the concerns. Secondly, generally speaking - not always - it is best to leave it to the enthusiasts of any genre to determine what represents a high standard. I certainly bow to people who have listened to R3 since it was the Third Programme when they say they know what they would like from the classical music programmes. This should work all ways. Thirdly, one word stands out awkwardly in the "Aims". It is the word "traditional" between "global" and the slightly odd "musics". Clearly this is there to address the pop issue and I wouldn't see a need to change it. However, the interpretation should not be overly rigid when there would be howls of protest if R3 didn't broadcast modern jazz, modern literature and work by modern classical composers.

Fourthly, I have come to the conclusion that all the old controversial dialogue, now tiresomely stale, was not about world music per se but rather Kershaw. It was that he was seen as a disc jockey. The proposed arrival of the far milder Gambaccini was similarly hated to the extent that he decided not to join R3 at all. While I welcome the documentaries involving Andy, I would not support his return as an individual presenter. He is just too abrasive. Interestingly, Gillett, a "disc jockey", managed to slot in very well - partially his style and partially the fact that the dust had settled by 2008. He is very sadly missed and yet I feel that the balance remains almost right, most particularly with the World Routes programme and the Womad coverage which perhaps veer most towards "trad". There is still scope for MAK to do on R3 what Harding should be doing on R2 but that is another matter.

I am aware of Mark Coles as a broadcaster, his WM programme, and his past work in the general arts, including WM, on "The Strand" programme on the World Service. Yes, he is good - I feel he is reminiscent of Hepworth actually, a man who could have reasonably harmoniously presented the "Sounds Interesting" programme in its day. Regrettably, it looks like he has gone in exactly the same direction as Doug Schulkind in having to broadcast online. And as our friend in Canada said, it is happening there too. The way of that world! It is probably worth mentioning again that World Routes is broadcast on the World Service. In fact, I listened to Lucy's Brazil broadcast on the World Service this week. Sat 20 August - 11.05 and 23.05. Sun 21 August - 03.05 and 19.05.

Platform 3. I don't accept that P3 is Room 101 unless certain forum members, or topics, are viewed as unwanted. The rock and pop thread is one I welcome hugely but it is no more relevant to R3 than football or stormy weather. P3 was on the BBC boards. It is the one place where people can think outside the boxes, help each other, find other common cause and, yes, debate. The thread wasn't dumped. It was placed where it best fits. Perhaps because it is not my thread, I wouldn't like to see it becoming another battleground. This forum is supposed to be attached to a campaigning website with common objectives. By definition, WM is surely well-placed to occupy the higher ground here. I would welcome feedback from all. But the guys of AfroCubism at the end of this clip sum up for me what it really should be all about. Cheers. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDe47kNWsYE.

[Globaltruth]

Is there a link between 'Allouette' and 'the bells of St Clements'?

That's never been fully explored by a WM performer has it?



Anyway a bit of good news, espesh for Iarla O'lianiard fans is that
The Afro Celt Sound System is back after a three-year hiatus.
I'm surprised as I thought they may have split given all their solo projects...(S.Emmerson and that there Imagined Village remember)

http://bit.ly/qScIz5

Or should that be the Afro Celt Sound system ARE back?

They won't mind....

[Lateralthinking1]

On balance, this is good news. The second Imagined Village album was so disappointing compared with the first. Hope though it doesn't affect his solo output.

[johncorrigan]

Lat , thanks for the earlier post which was most illuminating - I agree about Andy though I think the Beeb is a poorer place without the abrasive Mr K - I still think somewhere should have him in the studio playing records. He was probably a bit too political too – they didn’t notice that in R1, I imagine.

I think Mary Ann or Verity could do a job on R2 Folk - both are better broadcasters than the present incumbent and have a wider range of music, though Mary Ann might be accused of being too Celtic in her output.

I suppose I started listening to Radio 3 for a bit of jazz and during a time when I thought I should try harder with the BBC's classical output, but in reality I only really came here more regularly along with Andy. I enjoy a lot of the jazz output though I don't explore jazz away from the shows (I’ll definitely be listening to the programme about Artie Shaw this Saturday). The classical input goes in one ear and not much further unless I've got it broadcasting in stereo.

I suppose what you are saying about DJs might be construed that Broadcasters are less important on R3 as they might assume themselves to be in other parts of the Beeb and beyond. To that end I probably drift elsewhere, to other radio outlets. I like Late Junction a lot more nowadays than say five years back though some presenters more than others. I also think your pal Ian McMillan with his enthusiasm is a fine broadcaster, but they are in short supply on this network, in my opinion.

Lat, I used the term ‘shifted’ rather than 'dumped ' in relation to the pop and rock albums move to Platform 3 but I did find it amusing that it was moved from an area that was entitled Arts and Ideas as though Pop and Rock is not art. I apologise if I appeared rude about P3 - I don't go walking about these boards much and had forgotten this bit of the board until that string was moved - I came upon it once or twice back in the old days back when the old boards were there. I was just being glib for the sake of it. Your post encourages me to think I should visit it again sometime. Thanks.

[Lateralthinking1]

Hi JC, Thank you for your message. On P3, I didn't take offence from you. I knew that you weren't meaning to upset. Of course, I knew that. I was a bit irritable because I was concerned. The latter sometimes leads to the former! My worry was that the comment could spiral on a bit. I know that you wouldn't have wanted that to happen, nor me. When the shift of the R & P thread was initially considered, my gut reaction was not dissimilar from yours or that of hackneyvi. I do understand exactly where you were both coming from on that issue. However, once I had thought about it clearly, I took the quick - for me! - decision to agree with the move. I was absolutely under no pressure to do so and the logic is as I have previously outlined. My only doubt about it at all was that it might trigger more criticism of the non-classical forms on R3. It was a risk but it appears to have paid off. Obviously though, I wanted to nip in the bud any possibility of that happening, however inadvertently, on any part of the forum.

I also detected some recent patterns of discussion on WM that seemed to indicate bewilderment more generally. I didn't want confusion to lead to further cross-currents of confusion! I will be straightforward and upfront here. I sensed that my own meanderings might have been contributing to that situation. Since moving from the joint host role on WM to be a host on A and I, I have been dotting around the forum a bit. This has been particularly the case since The Verb went on its holiday. As I took part in R & P and then moved on to the Proms - I do want to expand my knowledge in classical and jazz music - I didn't want people to feel that I was becoming anti WM on 3. That is definitely not the case and it will never be. I realise that I might have come across as a bit prescriptive in an area for which I have no formal role. These things can be a delicate balance at times. In a sense, it hardly matters to the BBC what I believe but I wanted to clarify that more here for the sake of transparency.

And a lot depends on context. I like Andy. I hope that the R3 documentaries continue. I think though that he would be seen as abrasive by many in a regular slot on R3 - he might even enjoy the description! - but the very same traits would be colourful attributes on 6music. Here is his list on DID - http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features...taway/24c1a29f . I would have thought that a two hour weekly show of him playing all his favourite records on 6 would be essential listening. But my main message is that the classical people are in the best position to judge the classical programmes, jazz people with jazz, words people with words, and WM people with WM. I think that there is still a lot of scope for people to suggest improvements in their own genres without wading hugely into other areas. Then if people enjoy other bits and pieces, great. I also think this message had effectively been relayed by WM contributors on P3 anyway but there were clearly still a few understandable ripples over here.

And here I find I contradict myself because I'm not "in WM". This is not a pitch at becoming a host on WM again. GT is doing a grand job and I am settled on A & I. But musically, WM is my spiritual home on R3. I regret certain difficulties we have had in the past but hope still to be a welcome guest. Certainly, I find the contributions from everyone very enjoyable. As for P3, I can spend too much time on it actually. The riots most recently. For almost a year, everything in the news about what has gone wrong has seemed symbolic of my personal experience in 2010. This can sometimes get in the way of happier interests. Political writing on that board has been one of my ways of dealing with a range of emotions that might now best be termed "exasperation". One finds a lot of "common interest" there! But fortunately some of that is fading. I heard yesterday that my old boss, who I liked very much, has left what became an asylum. This means that every one of our team has departed in a space of seven months!

Somehow this convinces me that my decision, which was basically forced on me, was right - it has made a difference emotionally - because while I still have friends there, I would have felt isolated in my working domain. So there it is. Enough, enough. Well almost. On MAK and Verity, yes, I agree. It was a way of saying that I've never been happy with the R2 folk programme and that maybe placing folk on 3 would both provide a better service and help WM to be seen as bedded down more in roots. I have moved on though from my "mainly celtic" remark about MAK. That happens to be my favourite strand of folk music anyway but I realise that there is a lot more to her. She is a very good WM presenter. And seeing that if it ever were to happen, it would have to be in the time allocated to WM, I am not sure how it could be done in practice. I've really thought about it but can't see an answer. So maybe it is better to let things be, with what we have of folk on her programme and also on LJ. - The very kindest regards, Lat.

[johncorrigan]

I like Andy. I hope that the R3 documentaries continue. I think though that he would be seen as abrasive by many in a regular slot on R3 - he might even enjoy the description! - but the very same traits would be colourful attributes on 6music. Here is his list on DiD - http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features...taway/24c1a29f . I would have thought that a two hour show of him playing all his favourite records on 6 would be essential listening.
.

I like a spot of abrasion now and again Lat - somewhere I've got an old tape of the show Andy did just after DID of his flotsam and Jetsam - the stuff he missed out on the way to those great eight songs - it's a smashing listen as you'd imagine. In his auto, by the way, he says he regretted missing out Something in the Air by Thunderclap Newman. And, for all his love of Springsteen he didn't like Dancing in the Dark - I think it's a belter, but there you go. Yeah Beeb - give him a show - but somehow can't see him joining Mark in the shed.

[Lateralthinking1]

Thunderclap Newman - Great single - and a rhythmic masterclass.

Dancing In The Dark - Yes like. Not so keen on that album as some of his though, acclaimed as it was.

Seu Jorge - Changes - I do have the whole cd and I love it.

Important footnote:

While in my first of two essays - "Sorry about that Chief" - I quoted from the FoR3 aims, it is important to emphasise that FoR3 and this Forum are entirely separate entities although they have a common bond.