New r3 schedule and how it affects this particular part of the forum...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Seems to have increased the number of stations but decreased the variety of music available on them - all in the name of attaracting younger listeners, and chasing the ratings of commercial stations. The older listener has lost out. All those good niche bits on R2 are gradually being whittled away, and limited to one hour per weekday evening, to accommodate 2 hours of Jo Whiley and two hours of Trevor Nelson. Mainstream, daytime programmes on 1,2 and 6 have largely forgotten any music from before 1970, and most music seems to built around a nucleus of 80s pop, as has local radio.

If it’s really a ploy to attract younger listeners, it’s quite insulting to that particular chronological group. It assumes they prefer low intelligence chit-chat, have a very short attention span and want to hear the same things again and again. It assumes they don’t really want to develop as listeners, except by participating in Suzy’ pathetic and worn out parlour game.

It also denies them the opportunities that we had, and that is not acceptable.

[antongould]

........ It assumes they prefer low intelligence chit-chat, have a very short attention span and want to hear the same things again and again. It assumes they don’t really want to develop as listeners ......

I have five children and sadly, here at least, that’s not too wide of the mark ......

[cloughie]

If it’s really a ploy to attract younger listeners, it’s quite insulting to that particular chronological group. It assumes they prefer low intelligence chit-chat, have a very short attention span and want to hear the same things again and again. It assumes they don’t really want to develop as listeners, except by participating in Suzy’ pathetic and worn out parlour game.

It also denies them the opportunities that we had, and that is not acceptable.

Yes but even more to the point their misguided attempts at gaining young listeners they are losing their existing older listeners by removing what they want to listen to, from the airwaves - have they ever consulted a group of over 65s or do they think we are so past it that it doesn’t matter?

[LMcD]

Yes but even more to the point their misguided attempts at gaining young listeners they are losing their existing older listeners by removing what they want to listen to, from the airwaves - have they ever consulted a group of over 65s or do they think we are so past it that it doesn’t matter?

Dear Sir

In reply to your two questions:

No

and

Yes

respectively.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have five children and sadly, here at least, that’s not too wide of the mark ......

5?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oy!!! (I'm the fifth of five.)

[french frank]

happening "in April", so if all the programme changes are being dumped on us as a package, it'll happen a lot sooner than September.

There are usually two times for changes - Easter and post-Proms. This is the second time LJ has been reduced. Last time it was from four nights a week. I know this resulted in a big drop in weekly listeners: I suspect this is the newish broom’s attempt to achieve what LJ was originally intended to do: bring in the 35-54 year olds.

[cloughie]

Oy!!! (I'm the fifth of five.)

Isn't that somewhere north of Edinburgh?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Isn't that somewhere north of Edinburgh?

(you're on top form this art'noon, Cloughie! )

[Globaltruth]

Eh? I wasn’t presenting anything as”fact”. I was referring to the comments under the article. Was I mistaken in imagining that there were a number of remarks which were clear that the people there who “bewailed” the reduction in the Late Junction programming expressed the view in one way or the other that it was “the only thing worth buying a licence for” or similar? Even that the classical music was just more ‘Mozart and Beethoven’? It is my opinion (though not a fact) that over the past 10 years, as the BBC has increased the number of stations , R3 has steadily lost the programmes which fulfilled its original remit.

Ah, just based on those 2 comments then, I did catch the unhealthy tang of confirmation bias though.... I've been reading more than 2of those comments, also some of the comments (175 as of this post) under Alan Davey's actual blog post, and following occasionally on social media (#latejunction) - and can confirm that isn't the general view.
(If you go back to my original post, you'll note that I did say they were subjective; )
Most people in the comments I've read are simply commenting on the reduction of broadcast hours of LJ. I don't think you can't conclude an ad hoc fallacy from that. The subject is Late Junction. People are talking about Late Junction.

In its 20 year history LJ has always sat well (yet been generally unacknowledged) within r3 schedules, introducing listeners to a wide range of music - from classical, jazz, folk, world and 'others' ; yet it's only known for the 'others'. Odd that. Almost as if people comment on it without listening to it which is fine but should be made clear (is it the idea you don't like ?). The mix has definitely changed since the Reduced Listening production company took charge - nowadays more in sync with WIRED magazine and the hip Cafe Oto.
Absorbed the reduction from 4 nights to 3 a few years back, however this moves it, and Music Planet into the realm of tokenism. Alan Davey can claim to be covering a wide range of genres but he's knocked out some of the central planks on which to build that claim - but it's the BBC in the age of fake news (remember when it was spin? think I preferred that) so we must believe what we are told or just switch it off.
Meanwhile I'll be looking for alternatives, sharing any I find and with a faint hope that the Reduced Listening producers will find an alternative platform for LJ.
And maybe they'll bring back Fiona Talkington.

As an aside....
the author of the Guardian piece is now claiming that this reduction of LJ is a government plot because the government hates chaos and LJ stimulates chaos - he hasn't been following the House of Commons over the last few weeks then....

[french frank]

Ah, just based on those 2 comments then, I did catch the unhealthy tang of confirmation bias though...

Two comments? If you click on ‘View more comments’ there were several pages of them. I read 5 or 6 pages and have just done so again. I have noted down a number of comments that would support what I said originally. But apart from indicating that you dispute my conclusion, you haven’t been too clear what you disagree with. No one is going to dispute that a lot of people are highly enthusiastic about the programme and are upset to see it it reduced.

[Globaltruth]

There is a petition

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/community_petitions/BBC_Dont_cut_BBC_Late_Junction/?tPZSfob

[Globaltruth]

Two comments? If you click on ‘View more comments’ there were several pages of them. I read 5 or 6 pages and have just done so again. I have noted down a number of comments that would support what I said originally. But apart from indicating that you dispute my conclusion, you haven’t been too clear what you disagree with. No one is going to dispute that a lot of people are highly enthusiastic about the programme and are upset to see it it reduced.

I've just noted down even more comments that support what I said originally that approach will go nowhere unless an actual formal analysis is done across all the places where this is being discussed. Maybe individual interviews too.... we can all find data to support our bias.


I disagree with your view that LJ was never a good fit with r3 - and also your point about "airy fairy ambient easy listening" - which was why I made the points about the wide variety of music that LJ has played over the years and that, despite your disapproval, LJ has enjoyed nearly a 20 year run. Any clearer?

[MrGongGong]

I disagree with your view that LJ was never a good fit with r3 -

I found that view more than a little surprising

Surely LJ is exactly what R3 is "about" rather than simply being a jukebox of music we already know ?

[cloughie]

I found that view more than a little surprising

Surely LJ is exactly what R3 is "about" rather than simply being a jukebox of music we already know ?

It would fit 6Radio!