The rise and fall and rise of the Mixtape

[french frank]

Not exactly a 'logical' flow, more one that is meaningful and also responsive to the music it contains, sometimes in contrast.

Just a personal need of my own to want a reason why/how A proceeds to B. Words are an easy way. Not sure I would understand a 'contrast' (my own failing), any more than the logic of playing 'Erbarme dich mein Gott' immediately followed by Scott Joplin's The Entertainer, Breakfast-style, because it's a delicious clash of styles.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

We have a pleasant fellow who does that sort of thread heavy lifting for us..most obliging

He's done his back in.

[johncorrigan]

As was mentioned earlier, it is a form of DJ'ing. [DJ is an abbreviation for an American phrase 'Disc Jockey', the English version POGR* never really caught on.]
Can't imagine why not. I think this was a shortened version of POGRWDIADJ**
*Player Of Gramophone Records
** Player Of Gramophone Records Whilst Dressed In A Dinner Jacket. I have a conspiracy theory that the Americans just stole the DJ bit!!

Genius, Global.

[Serial_Apologist]

Genius, Global.

I'm trying to remember when the term discothèque first came in as a description of clubs where people paid on entering to dance to recorded music. I seem to recall it being around 1967, in the shortened disco version, or disco joint, which had nothing to do with what Ronnie Scott and his associates had once described as Naughty African Woodbines.

[french frank]

I'm trying to remember when the term discothèque first came in as a description of clubs where people paid on entering to dance to recorded music.

An interesting historical usage:

1929 Sackbut Apr. 9 Great Britain's contribution to the world's gramophone music consists of only two discs which should be found in any gentleman's discothèque.

But in the sense you mean, possibly the earliest UK example (US perhaps earlier, from the 50s):

1963 Financial Times 20 June 13/6 Wips and Annabel's..are both luxurious versions of the discothèque, a night club where music for dancing is provided by gramophone rather than a live band.

[Serial_Apologist]

An interesting historical usage:

1929 Sackbut Apr. 9 Great Britain's contribution to the world's gramophone music consists of only two discs which should be found in any gentleman's discothèque.

But in the sense you mean, possibly the earliest UK example (US perhaps earlier, from the 50s):

1963 Financial Times 20 June 13/6 Wips and Annabel's..are both luxurious versions of the discothèque, a night club where music for dancing is provided by gramophone rather than a live band.

Interesting - thanks ff. Prior to this, presumably people only danced to records in people's homes. A image from a Poliakoff period drama of flappers dancing to "symphonic jazz" around the wind-up "gram" comes to mind.

[Quarky]

I'm not even sure how people listen to mixtapes. If the word 'curate' could be used at all, I would understand how a mixtape could be curated, that there would some sort of logical flow created by the compiler which would, vitally, be appreciated by a careful listener. Is that what happens? Or is it simply what 'young people' have on in the background while they do their homework (and mutatis mutandis older people too)?

I can only speak for myself, but I find my mind is refreshed, and I can listen to stock music items with fresh ears. For example, if I am solemnly informed by the presenter that Mozart's Piano Concerto or Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto is going to be performed, together with some erudite analysis by the soloist, I tend to think "not, that again" and switch off. However, insert the same item into a mixtape and I will listen with open ears and actually think "what a delightful piece of music". The same applies to World Music.

[Serial_Apologist]

I can only speak for myself, but I find my mind is refreshed, and I can listen to stock music items with fresh ears. For example, if I am solemnly informed by the presenter that Mozart's Piano Concerto or Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto is going to be performed, together with some erudite analysis by the soloist, I tend to think "not, that again" and switch off. However, insert the same item into a mixtape and I will listen with open ears and actually think "what a delightful piece of music". The same applies to World Music.

Interesting. I think there's a difference between hearing an otherwise familiar piece of music afresh, either by virtue of its removal from some familiarising context, whether that be a concert or broadcasting slot, or when slotted into another context where generically-speaking it is not "at home". The categorically disorientating effect might lead one to hear the piece freed of associative preconceptions. This might a case in point in what you are describing.

[french frank]

For example, if I am solemnly informed by the presenter that Mozart's Piano Concerto or Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto is going to be performed, together with some erudite analysis by the soloist, I tend to think "not, that again" and switch off. However, insert the same item into a mixtape and I will listen with open ears and actually think "what a delightful piece of music".

But does that imply a 'mixtape' or just not being told what you're going to hear next, segue after segue? And you may hear something that you've never heard before - do mixtapes have lists somewhere that will tell you (after you've listened, of course!) what it was - assuming you might want to know?

They do seem to be a particular kind of listening, not necessarily high involvement though that would be up to the listener. I'm not sure I would find it any more interesting than Breakfast-style listening and would give both a miss. But that's just a personal response: it shouldn't be taken as 'disapproval' of mixtapes

[MrGongGong]

But does that imply a 'mixtape' or just not being told what you're going to hear next, segue after segue? And you may hear something that you've never heard before - do mixtapes have lists somewhere that will tell you (after you've listened, of course!) what it was - assuming you might want to know?

Usually they do.
(you probably know what i'm going to say anyway) there's a fair bit of research into how people respond to the unfamiliar and what kinds of information are "ueseful". Sometimes it's better NOT to know anything and simply trust the person playing the music. If Bryn (for example) suggested that I listened to something I would probably go and do it.... He was in the Scratch Orchestra so obviously knows his alliums

[french frank]

there's a fair bit of research into how people respond to the unfamiliar and what kinds of information are "useful". Sometimes it's better NOT to know anything and simply trust the person playing the music. If Bryn (for example) suggested that I listened to something I would probably go and do it.... He was in the Scratch Orchestra so obviously knows his alliums

There was I puzzling over what "knowing his alliums" meant: a technical term or a typo?

Yes, research. Response surely varies from individual to individual? I was reading this morning some old BBC Trust research (as you do) on familiarity - relating to television choices:

"The familiar is seen as being as important as the new, as it fits in with how people watch television. They expect their viewing diet to comprise mostly familiar ‘old favourite’ programmes, with a few that are a slight twist on a familiar theme, and very few that are genuinely ‘new new’ and groundbreaking."

I'd guess that has a wider application than television programmes. You and Bryn are probably drawn to the 'new new' and 'groundbreaking' and that's channelled in very similar directions. Others might want 'new to me' but still within the general ambit of what they know ('classical', 'early music', 'global music', 'easy listening'). The 'anything, really' idea which seems to be behind mixtapes will have a strong appeal to some and exactly what others don't want

[If you knew how many times I've sampled videos from you and others on the 'Long delayed song thread'. I now blush to remember that my only, very early, suggestion (before I quietly withdrew) was Arleen Auger singing Abendempfindung, as I had not realised what 'song' was going to imply

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm rapidly coming to the sad conclusion that the BBC is run by simpletons.

The direction (or lack of it) of Radio 3 is a mere symptom of the problem, with commercial radio in the driving seat. Pirate radio in the 1960s was a trigger. The BBC responded by telling us Radio 4 was to be the new Home Service, Radio 3 was to be the new Third/Music Programme, Radio 2 was to be the new Light Programme and Radio 1 (and they really said this) would be the new Pirate Radio.

We don't need reminding that the pathetic efforts of Breakfast/Essential Classics/In Tune are clones of CFM.

When ITV started Breakfast TV, the BBC responded by copying the commercial channel. BBC News 24 was a copy too. In fact I'm trying to recall the last time the Beeb had an original idea.

And then there's the small matter of political pressure being put on to the BBC, resulting in the loss of the corporation's renowned impartiality.

Perhaps three radio stations and two TV channels was a better bet.

[Lat-Literal]

There are the Bob Harris segues or segways, never a ridiculous vehicle, of which I find the factual ones the least enticing. Let me do my own Harris factual segway here. Apache by the Shadows followed by Honky Tonk Women by the Rolling Stones. The first is one of 69 chart hits by the Shadows with or without Cliff. The second is from '69 and it was the last time Jagger and Co had a number one chart single. Yes - it really was half a century ago. Bob's were generally less interesting, not that this of itself was a reason for R2 to ditch his show.

Then there is the Bob musical segue or segway. You could have here Ventura Highway by America and follow it with The Police's Do Do Da Da as a match for the do da dos in Ventura Highway or go instead with its guitar and percussion emphasis and segue to Oblivious by Aztec Camera. Only the latter percussion based concept could ever be half close to a night in Annabels, the Wigan Casino, a field off the M25 or a Whirl-y-Gig for the chosen few. Personally, I'd want the Aztecs to segue with Lucia and Isla's Como El Agua but one can't have it all.

In all the above dancing places it is less about the arts than the beats. Variations on a one trick pony, albeit impressive in how it finds endless possibilities. That is, rather than the much broader canvas of the myriad of interlinkages through arrangement and production, instrumentation and ideation, fascinating rhythm and fun filled wrong footing, not to mention voice and vibe. The latter is more my curating. Yes to Dulux and impressionism as a way of life 24/7. No to throwing yourself around for an hour before donning a Durex at the end of a night.

Of the scenarios mentioned, it is the Whirl-y-Gig that straddles the significant boundaries. That's because global beats are multifarious. Many a creative nuance can often be slipped in surreptitiously. They are mainly for the appreciation of the librarians when the happy pills are going down. Ice sculptures, jasmine gardens, rainbows in the desert and chinoiserie. Etc.

There is more of a problem if a Max or a Lopa assumes revelation in the attentive listener where unless you have always been them it all might be oblique. I've spent years on Spotify in that process. Some of the connections will no doubt have been apparent. That was always the objective alongside others' willingness to work with it. But I have had to acknowledge in recent years that all of the lovingly blurred transparency only forms a coherent picture in me. For the record, the frame is on the cusp of Brenda's Iron Sledge and Octopus I Love You.

[Padraig]

Others might want 'new to me' but still within the general ambit of what they know ('classical', 'early music', 'global music', 'easy listening'). The 'anything, really' idea which seems to be behind mixtapes will have a strong appeal to some and exactly what others don't want

[If you knew how many times I've sampled videos from you and others on the 'Long delayed song thread'. I now blush to remember that my only, very early, suggestion (before I quietly withdrew) was Arleen Auger singing Abendempfindung, as I had not realised what 'song' was going to imply

Mixtapes is a new word - and attracts new definitions. I think of the time, before CD, when all I had were cassette tapes. Almost ALL my collected music was in there. However I suppose that my reminiscences aren't relevant, even though I had a place for f f's Mozart 'song', Abendempfindung, which I well remember her posting, duly classified and easily retrievable, and distinguishable from Peggy Lee's Black Coffee.

[french frank]

I had a place for f f's Mozart 'song', Abendempfindung, which I well remember her posting, duly classified and easily retrievable, and distinguishable from Peggy Lee's Black Coffee.

God bless you, Padraig!