R3 Needs AK

[Martin Reynolds]

Thanks GT. No let the comedy continue. Just because it doesn't suit me is no reason to close it. I just don't understand most of what is going on. I get very little from my father's sermons. Just because I don't get it doesn't mean he's not a good preacher. I prefer other styles. I guess it would be easy to conclude that I'm thick. And yet I have studied at the very highest level although not altogether successfully. Still I have had 2 published research papers one of which was all my own work. If you like this keep it up. In fact I insist you keep it up. I wouldn't wish to be thought of as being a bore. But I do find it frustrating. Enough said!

[johncorrigan]

I'm glad you're all having fun here because I'm not. This world music board is like bad religion. Largely written in gobbledegook. Can someone please tell me how my original post morphed into this boring trash. I think I'll stick to the classical boards where I feel I can actually learn something worthwhile. Roll on the Proms. We listen and we discuss. Anyone can take part who has a decent pair of ears. You don't have to learn a biographical dictionary about obscure practitioners or suck up to second rate DJ intermediaries.

Martin there are 74 proms all pre-arranged and publicised and broadcast in the main at times which are fairly accessible on Radio 3. By my estimation that's about 200hours in a bit over a month and a half. If you count LJ and Wo3 and World Routes I reckon you might hit about 400 hours as the annual air time for World/folk/LJ type stuff. And, apart from World Routes it's mostly on half way into the night so it's difficult to catch a lot of content live - so you rely on LA which means computer time. ( can be tough getting to the front of the queue).
Anyway for example the proms, that means there's plenty more time and material to rattle on about Liszt and the merits of Bach and all those other composers and orchestras and Sir Simon Rattle and all them dudes and dudesses.

I personally don't think that Verity is second rate - oh and I wish Andy was back around too - where's that Siberia programme by the way - I think there'd be a few more folk around who might be around more often if he was back on. And I think that Lee Scratch Perry coming in to this string was perfectly natural - that's surely what a string is - we do talk about other stuff, but sometimes we have to make our own entertainment out here in the quiet world.

[Martin Reynolds]

Thanks John. Good stuff. It's a damn shame that there's so little 'world' music out there in R3 land. Ravi Shankar is coming to this neck of the woods soon. That term 'world music' causes an awful lot of problems. Some people think it's trash which comes from other countries. The trouble is that a lot of it is trash in my experience and is doing no favours to anyone. University is a world I know. I've had the feeling that standards have been dropping for years. These days they're handing out First Class Honours Degrees like bog paper. My respectable 2/1 in 1986 has become just that, second rate. I believe that we need to have the tightest quality control in order to improve the image of 'world music'. I'm not convinced that R3 is achieving that at the moment and so the world music broadcasters are part of the problem. John, if you'd like to say that Verity is doing a good job I am prepared to believe you. I really haven't listened to one of her shows. At the risk of embarrassing DJ Ritu, she doesn't like R3's world music sound either. You have to get the highest quality in the shows and then make your case for better coverage. All the best, Martin.

[Lateralthinking1]

First, Martin, my apologies if I have contributed to difficulties. Like to think that we all get to the topical issues regularly even if we do take "the scenic route". Certainly the scope is about as broad as the radio output in any week. If anything, I think I would argue that the range of artists we have considered is slightly closer to AK's musical tastes than perhaps it is to those of any existing presenter. It also seems right to pick up on programmes on R4, R2 and elsewhere, now that they are covering more serious music and don't have their own forums. Fela Kuti on 4 this week would be a good example.

We could do better. There could be more obvious focus on R3 content. I know that I dip in and out. There are also ways that could be introduced of featuring more contemporary artists. I miss the current steer that Charlie used to be so good at providing on his programme and website. I think it was GT who suggested that we could have an "Album of the Month" feature, if not the week or day, as Calum does and I personally would like to see that happening. The Womad thread with links to artists performing this year also provides an opportunity for exploration on YouTube etc and then hopefully message boarders' comments.

I do think AK is a very good presenter and has a unique place in both broadcasting and world music. Music Planet was my highlight of the year to date on R3. A real triumph and his return, albeit temporary, was universally welcomed here. Having said that, I am with John on the presenters we do have. My immense respect for Lucy is well-known, JC champions MAK and I can well understand why, GT does the same for Max. Andrew M does a fine job when he crosses over from the classical, I am probably more for Lopa than some but there are bound to be differences. Verity has often been absent recently. She and Fiona are good. I think there was only one presenter who we gave something of a rough ride to. In short, it is a good team.

Do please continue to contribute. Your input is important. The last thing any of us wants is for this to be a clique. The door isn't just open. It has got a great big "welcome sign" and it is excellent that many others have participated when they have had an interest in a subject, eg country. If there is anyone who wants to take it all in a different direction, great. Given an interesting lead, I tend to follow. Kind regards, Lat. (PS - My 2:1 was achieved in 1985. I can't say that it has ever been rewarded either but on balance it was probably worth getting).

[Lateralthinking1]

....Just read your latest post and will make a couple more (hopefully helpful) points.

On the "World Music" heading, from memory, this was debated here back in November. It would probably be right to say that nearly 30 years on from its introduction generally, it remains the most contentious point in this area. While "Global Music", "Global Beats" and a lot of other terms have often been discussed, no one has ever been able to find something that is better (although some of them are arguably equal to the term we all live with). This was one of the reasons why I argued for its retention. The other reasons were (a) that it is the term that R3 uses and (b) most importantly that the Committee in the eighties which wanted to promote the music chose it. That committee included many respected figures including a Mr Gillett.

From the outset, no one was entirely comfortable with it. Peter Gabriel would say as much and, as you know, he was very close to it all then as he is now. It isn't very specific. It means different things to different people. Some want it broad, others narrow. There is also a point about whether it is fully respectful of artists across the globe to lump them all together. Nevertheless Youssou would recognise the decency behind its intentions and its effectiveness, as did Nusrat, and so too very many hundreds of artists who otherwise would not have had air time at all.

On the point about "there's a lot of rubbish", perhaps, but this equally applies to all genres. It is also the case that individual preferences determine views to some extent on what is rubbish or not. Like other genres, there are a lot of cross-cultural strands. Some come at this from their memories of the 60s and the 70s. Some, like me, and I'm guessing you, are more of the Kershaw era, ie post-Graceland. Those younger than me often have more of a post-90s club based outlook - Gilles Peterson and DJ Ritu are two. There should be a place for all of them.

We all move forward and look back, embracing what we want to, but I would have hoped that if there was any genre of music which could take on board a very broad mix of music, it is this one. Surely it is the most naturally suited to doing so.

[Martin Reynolds]

Thanks Lat. It's an interesting theory that we all come to music with different 'baggage' depending on our age. It's true that Kershaw introduced me to 'world music'. For that he has my gratitude. What really shaped my attitude to popular music was punk rock with it's suspicion of chart music. I hear the genre alive and well albeit having morphed into something more contemporary such as Green Day or the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Indie like the Kaiser Chiefs and the Arctic Monkeys I also have a lot of time for. Going backwards from punk rock I can appreciate the Who and the Kinks etc. What I can't appreciate is guitar based musical virtuosity for virtuosity's sake such as you get in a lot of heavy metal. That says something about my references. So I agree with you Lat but only to a certain extent. For I believe I have transcended such things into something more objective. I don't know much about dance music and hip-hop but it is part of my belief system that they are worthwhile.

For the last 6-9 months I have stood shoulder to shoulder with DJ Ritu as she has gone through the traumatic experience of being dumped by her radio station. It was the highlight of mine and Zizwai's week to listen live to her broadcasts. Yes she is younger than me but I believe that she cannot be categorised as being simply a club based approach to 'world music'. I believe that like all mature listeners she has attained a certain degree of objectivity. Not total objectivity, none of us can achieve that. But enough for me to believe that she speaks across the generations. Her contribution to Rough Guide of Bangra and Bangra Dance are to my ears outstanding. She is worthy of a place in the pantheon of 'world music' greats along with her hero Kershaw.

To conclude, things are complex. Objectivity is possible in high degree and we can not merely be put in a container which says 60s, 70s or clubby. Light up, light up as if you have a choice....X factor star Leona Lewis has taught me a thing or two.

[Paul Sherratt]

Hi Martin,

For the benefit of all, why not give us say a dozen or so example of top tunes and artists that your current favourite DJ
has introduced you to.

And out of curiosity do you listen to the R3 late nighters at all ?

[Martin Reynolds]

Not late night but I did try to listen to World Routes last Saturday. I became exasperated after about half an hour and switched off. Now Lucy really DOES need Andy!

If you want an example of something important DJ Ritu has introduced me to I'd say Bob Brozman and Six Days in Down. Upon hearing him as a guest on the old BBC London show I immediately paid good money and downloaded the whole album onto my iTunes. 'Red Haired Man's Wife' is a good track. Here it is by Sean Cannon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD6jaK8X6TA

Sorry I'm not into lists.

[Paul Sherratt]

I'm not really asking for a list - just something to substantiate your argument.
Brozman has been played on R3 numerous times and has been around for ever, btw.
Old Bob has in fact been spun by every single R3 Late Night DJ without a single exception
That's all five of them.


Brozman footnote:
Recorded in 1989 with The Tau Moe Family and often heard on Late Night BBC Radio 1

http://www.bobbrozman.com/taumoe.html

[johncorrigan]

I once said back on the old board that the thing I liked about Kershaw was that I never felt stuck - when I listen to old tapes out in the garden I realise how much I love the approach he had.

You could go from the Caribbean to Corsica to Capetown to Cape Wrath in the space of fifteen minutes - R'n'B and reggae were at home with throat singers and Lancashire Ballads. It's these shows that made me, for example, go look out more of the old blues, explore more music that I like rather than sitting around waiting for it to happen - actually it's a bit like this board for me.

As Lat said previously, I do like Mary Ann - I think she's improved enormously as a broadcaster and I enjoy her enthusiasm - she lacks the range that Kershaw brought though but I've certainly appreciated the knowledge she has of Scottish and Irish music. I also enjoy her Radio Scotland show a lot more than of old.

Lopa has come and gone with me over the last couple of years - I felt I was driven up a South American cul-de-sac for a while, but at the moment she seems to be all over the place - her recent fascination with Bangladeshi 'pop' for example, completely bemused me.

I think they could do with a new face in there - I assume it won't be Andy - perhaps given what's going on at 6Music they could perhaps find a spot for him over there - I think his playlist is now too wide for R3. The days of hearing the Clash or Wreckless Eric on 3 are mostly gone - more's the pity. Still I thought we might have been getting the AK World Routes programmes, but still little sign. Maybe after the book comes out.

It seems that with Charlie's death and Kershaw's exile from the studio we've lost two of the beacons for world music in those broader terms - those people who really looked at the way that music moved around - music bouncing back and forward across the Atlantic, whether between Marseilles and New Orleans, Shetland and Kentucky, or Mali and Cuba....or just Kingston and Birmingham....seeing those influences in North Africa, the jazz of Ethiopia - the music of the World always seemed such a vibrant entity in their hands.

No real conclusion - that's my tuppence worth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtUM15DWdxw

You should stick around Martin - you're a good influence.

[Martin Reynolds]

Bless you Mariza! Cheers John!

[Paul Sherratt]

Martin,

You haven't explained how you've come to have missed Bob Brozman during all these twenty plus years of
bbc radio exposure by AK, JP, MAK, VS, LK, FT, MR, BH and others.

[Lateralthinking1]

Some random thoughts on recent comments -

Mariza - Terrific. She is very distinctive.

Heavy metal - Yes, Martin, quite. Spinal Tap did sum it up really. Nearly all dreadful. I would, though, play a Free record and like the rootsy, idiosyncratic nature of early Welsh rock bands like Budgie and Man. This is a character fault.

Virtuosity - Yes, totally agree, on electric guitar workouts. Mainly dire too. I suggest Michael Hedges and Robbie Basho as good examples, among many, of virtuosity generally. Ravi Shankar, who you mention, is definitely another. It's in the tuning for me.

DJ Ritu - Charlie had the same problem at Capital from memory. Possibly about one year into a Conservative Government too? BBC Radio London, always a law unto itself, and often good for that reason, should be ashamed at (a) the sudden dismissal of a committed presenter and (b) the trashing of her predecessor's memory. In many ways, this is a sign of the times. Happening everywhere. It is far more gut-wrenching in its impacts, particularly when campaigned against, than the cutters are prepared to go near to acknowledging in their increasingly crazed brains.

Local radio - I think Ritu still has her Asian music programme on BBC 3CR? It seems, what with French London Radio, Polish London Radio, etc, etc that the trend is towards providing specialist services for groups in Britain rather than focussing farther afield. I guess that it makes some sense as it is local radio and it builds on early programmes like "Black Londoners". That is little consolation I agree for other music radio listeners and 3CR also needs to be watched very closely. Didn't like the way they ditched Jake's Rokker Radio Show.

Radio 3 World - It probably should be accepted that a station like R3, with all its emphasis on classical music, literature, etc, is going to have a fairly dry approach to world music too. You and I have discussed in the past Lucy's role at SOAS and I really like her academic way with the music while being personable. Are you still thinking of doing a course? Max does his own thing and has been described as an "enthusiast", not welcomed by all but he does have some link with the more ambitious and eclectic programmes on the station in the 70s, not that he would necessarily see it like that himself.

This is not to say that Ritu isn't enthusiastic and full of knowledge. But to take two random names out of the hat, so are Rob Da Banc and Annie Nightingale, both very good broadcasters, but they wouldn't be right for 3 style-wise. Of course, Charlie was also on the World Service. I wonder if DJ Ritu could find a niche there? If not, 6Music surely.

Invitation - One thought - she is always welcome to come on here as people like Mr Anderson did when we were all "with" the BBC and offer her perspectives on what is needed more on 3 in terms of world music. They would be interesting to hear.

Brozman - I liked the Jin Jin album he did with Takashi Hirayasu.

Other old friends - Isn't it a shame we don't hear from McGrooger anymore? I hope he is ok.

[Martin Reynolds]

Paul, too much time thinking about Beethoven. I had come across him before in a collaboration with Debashish Battacharya. But it's always nice to get to know a man through an in-depth interview and an interesting current project. :)

[Lateralthinking1]

But who is going to tell Tchaikovsky this news?