The Bob hits seventy thread!

[antongould]

To me it's words and music the complete package but if Paul Simon may be allowed to intrude again on his friend's birthday thread I feel it all flows much less naturally for PS - would we ever see an acknowledgement like this on a Dylan CD?

To my fiend, Philip Glass, who seems to know how to untangle the harmonic knots that I occasionally miscreate in my songs!

This appears with Simon's latest CD

[Lateralthinking1]

I love "Glassworks". The people I met at university - 1982-1985 - had wide-ranging musical tastes. It was a time to listen to records by musicians who I hadn't really listened to in depth before. I found it very rewarding and broadened my interests but at the age of 20, I just couldn't get Dylan. I was handed "Highway 61 Revisited" and "Blonde on Blonde", both released before my memories of music on the radio, which had started early but not early enough in the period 1968-1970. Certainly, very few tracks apart from the obvious ones had received daytime airplay.

Fast forward to 1989. I was 26 and on a weekend trip to Dublin. The coach journey seemed endless and in our group we seemed to have just three records to listen to on walkmans. "Oh Mercy" had been released, Lanois produced, accessible. The reviews were good. By the time I got home, I loved it. I went out and bought it along with the two that I had rejected earlier and "The Freewheelin" and was completely bowled over by them. The next month I bought "John Wesley Harding", "Blood On The Tracks" and "Slow Train Coming" and was just astonished how distinct each of them were. Then followed "Desire", "Nasville Skyline" and "Saved" and so it went on.

I remember the day that I bought a ticket to see him. I was so excited about it. It was pouring down heavily with rain from early morning and the gig was going to be outside. I listened to "Blood On The Tracks" repeatedly until it was time to leave, got soaked, and still loved every moment. I have seen him twice since live and, of course, there were new albums too, perhaps most notably "Time Out of Mind". I watched the films, bought books of lyrics and biographies. In eight years, he went from barely registering on the list of my musical interests to my favourite musician and lyricist of all time.

One of my friends, who is 10 to 15 years older than me, has said that it always amazes him how he appeals to people who didn't grow up with him, who weren't there so to speak. I have no doubt that he always will do. I do think though that certain artists start to appeal at a mature age. It is perhaps no coincidence that 1989 was the year when I also took to Van Morrison courtesy of "Avalon Sunset". From there it was straight into "Astral Weeks", "Moondance", "Common One" and "Irish Heartbeat" and then a lot of others. Three years later, on the release of "Harvest Moon", it was much the same with Neil Young but there I did at least have a strong early reference point in that "Heart of Gold" from "Harvest" had been in the chart in 1972.

It is certainly not the case that my tastes between 1989 and 1992 were principally retro. They were, and continued to be, contemporary. I have had moments since of becoming very keen on past artists - Nick Drake springs to mind and to a lesser extent Bruce Springsteen - but with one or two exceptions I am not sure that I have really had that extreme sense of revelation that I had with Dylan, Morrison and Young.

I sometimes wonder if it would have happened at all had I not been into music at a very young age. I was 14 in 1977 and for many of my contemporaries punk was their musical initiation. While full of merit in itself, it would be hard now to underestimate how persuasive it was in encouraging a dismissal of the old breed. Ironically, those who took to it and never really looked beyond it - the people who only attend punk gigs now - now seem extremely old and conservative in their outlook for doing so. Music as well as life moves in mysterious ways.

[Mandryka]

I love "Glassworks". The people I met at university - 1982-1985 - had wide-ranging musical tastes. It was a time to listen to records by musicians who I hadn't really listened to in depth before. I found it very rewarding and broadened my interests but at the age of 20, I just couldn't get Dylan. I was handed "Highway 61 Revisited" and "Blonde on Blonde", both released before my memories of music on the radio, which had started early but nor early enough in the period 1968-1970. Certainly, very few tracks apart from the obvious ones had received daytime airplay.

Fast forward to 1989. I was 26 and on a weekend trip to Dublin. The coach journey seemed endless and in our group we seemed to have just three records to listen to on walkmans. "Oh Mercy" had been released, Lanois produced, accessible. The reviews were good. By the time I got home, I loved it. I went out and bought it along with the two that I had rejected earlier and "The Freewheelin" and was completely bowled over by them. The next month I bought "John Wesley Harding", "Blood On The Tracks" and "Slow Train Coming" and was just astonished how distinct each of them were. Then followed "Desire", "Nasville Skyline" and "Saved" and so it went on.

I remember the day that I bought a ticket to see him. I was so excited about it. It was pouring down heavily with rain from early morning and the gig was going to be outside. I listened to "Blood On The Tracks" repeatedly until it was time to leave, got soaked, and still loved every moment. I have seen him twice since live and, of course, there were new albums too, perhaps most notably "Time Out of Mind". I watched the films, bought books of lyrics and biographies. In eight years, he went from barely registering on the list of my musical interests to my favourite musician and lyricist of all time.

One of my friends, who is 10 to 15 years older than me, has said that it always amazes him how he appeals to people who didn't grow up with him, who weren't there so to speak. I have no doubt that he always will do. I do think though that certain artists start to appeal at a mature age. It is perhaps no coincidence that 1989 was the year when I also took to Van Morrison courtesy of "Avalon Sunset". From there it was straight into "Astral Weeks", "Moondance", "Common One" and "Irish Heartbeat" and then a lot of others. Three years later, on the release of "Harvest Moon", it was much the same with Neil Young but there I did at least have a strong early reference point in that "Heart of Gold" from "Harvest" had been in the chart in 1972.

It is certainly not the case that my tastes between 1989 and 1992 were principally retro. They were, and continued to be, contemporary. I have had moments since of becoming very keen on past artists - Nick Drake springs to mind and to a lesser extent Bruce Springsteen - but with one or two exceptions I am not sure that I have really had that extreme sense of revelation that I had with Dylan, Morrison and Young.

I sometimes wonder if it would have happened at all had I not been into music at a very young age. I was 14 in 1977 and for many of my contemporaries punk was their musical initiation. While full of merit in itself, it would be hard now to underestimate how persuasive it was in encouraging a dismissal of the old breed. Ironically, those who took to it and never really looked beyond it - the people who only attend punk gigs now - now seem extremely old and conservative in their outlook for doing so. Music as well as life moves in mysterious ways.

I do have some sympathy for the heritage-baiting attitude of the punk/New Wave bands of the late 70s/early 80s: it must have been frustrating, having to cope with the legacy of the Beatles/Dylan, who cast giant shadows over all the popular music that came after them. But punk was no more, really, than a return to the 'anyone can do it' values of early rock and roll - meat and potatoes playing, simplistic lyrics and bags of attitude.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

watched Part 2 of the Scorsese which seemed obsessively focused on the reaction to electrification and had nothing to show at all about the later years and no examination of Dylan's withdrawal and return in a period when he produced some amazing albums ... disappointing

when friends first played me the first two albums i didn't get too excited, thought some of the songs were neat .... but just like the trad jazz oiks i thought folkies were hicks with no wicks and for me Bringing It All and Highway 61 were the albums that led to my enthralment with his work .... [and i still find artists like Pete Seeger unbearable in the holiness of their cause ...It Ain't Me Babe!]

three or four years back i saw Dylan live at the Wembley Arena ... and i got Seeger's point about the volume .... hard to bear and hard work to discern even what song was being sonically smeared at some moments that night .... of course on the albums an engineer and producer have balanced and shaped the sound, which Dylan seems unable or unwilling to create live .... not something i believe can be said about P Simon or L Cohen ... i do not at all object to music, as somebody aptly put it, with the bark still on it, but it does have to be discernible in the first place .. at least 80% of that concert was just a wall of noise ... and indistinguishable from a free improv barrage a la Brotzmann .... that sloppy craftsmanship is a signal of a contradiction or paradox in his relationship to his audience that is tiresome now though one can see how it might have come about in the Scorsese movie

[Martin Reynolds]

Happy birthday Bob! Hey Mr Tambourine Man play a song for me...actually here's a whole new angle...my friend and I once had a conversation about the relative merits of Bob and Van. She went for Van and I went for Bob. We agreed to disagree. Any thoughts?

[MrGongGong]

personally I find the wordyness of both a bit tiresome
though Van is (IMV) a far more interesting musician and less wedded to the (again IMV only !!) tired old "one man and his guitar" thing
for Musical interest (and great storytelling) give me Tom Waits any day

I suppose in some ways I "blame" Dylan for starting the whole "music is songs" thing , which seems to have taken over the world so that when you speak to many people about MUSIC they understand it to only be SONGS and nothing else , which is sad
but again I think i'm too young to get Dylan really though its nice to see a musician receiving acknowledgement of what is (despite my lack of enthusiasm for the genre) an impressive career !

[johncorrigan]

Really enjoyed Radio 4's 'Archive on 4' on Bob, particularly the bit about John Wesley Harding and Paul Morley's take on Bob the interviewee - but it's well worth a listen to hear the different takes people have on the birthday boy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0118brp

[Lateralthinking1]

I have been taking some time out to have a Bob Dylan morning. Caught the first of the R4 programmes and agree that it was good, even if the sound effects people went a little overboard.

I thought the Greil Marcus interpretation of "John Wesley Harding" was interesting. Prescient while also looking back, and ranging cinematically from the virtual wild west of the great outdoors to the comparative certainties of a living room, all the while featuring a small cast of characters who probably knew each other. I hadn't thought of the album in those ways before.

It was also lovely to hear Nanci Griffith speaking and focussing on Bob rather than Bob Dylan. So too to hear the Cerys Matthews comments on the historical basis of some of the songs. And I really enjoyed the contribution of the psychotherapist who had begged her parents at the age of sixteen to attend the folk and poetry evenings at the Pinder of Wakefield.

I caught Part 2 of Arena on I-Player and was sad to have missed the first part. It told the story of the acoustic to electric moments very well. There were also some fascinating clips of Britain socially in the early sixties, not necessarily as different from the current times as one might imagine.

Interestingly, as the whole business of celebrity in music took off, it seems that the musicians themselves were not overly keen on it. It wasn't just Dylan - Lennon and many others found it irritating. That is a significant difference. Many now crave it and even become it.

With the mentioning of Mike Bloomfield on "Highway 61 Revisited", one was reminded how so many didn't make it through the era of freedom -. "Its Not The Spotlight" etc. The Al Kooper contribution to "Highway" though was a splendid twist of fate and Al himself came across as a nice guy.

I have also watched the somewhat challenging documentary on AJ Weberman. It was quite difficult to sit though so much atrocious singing from doped up ex-hippies. Hard too to know quite what to think about AJ as a person. There were nevertheless some great lines in it - "They do acknowledge that I was the founder of garbology" and particularly "I don't know what it is with Dylan lately, his garbage has deteriorated" - as he is filmed going through his bins. Very, very. bizarre.

Martin's question about Bob and Van is a corker. It has to be Bob but it says so much about Van that the question could even be asked and make a lot of sense. A one word answer isn't enough. It needs a bit of explanation. The more I thought about it - similarities, distinctions etc - all the obvious points seemed less than obvious. This could therefore take some time!

[Lateralthinking1]

.....Incidentally, Radio 2 have a programme tonight to celebrate the birthday - I think this is part of the series also going out on 6music - and it might be tomorrow on R4 when Emma Freud looks more closely at the subject of Dylan and religion.

[johncorrigan]

.....Incidentally, Radio 2 have a programme tonight to celebrate the birthday - I think this is part of the series also going out on 6music - and it might be tomorrow on R4 when Emma Freud looks more closely at the subject of Dylan and religion.

....and at 9 tomorrow evening on 6, three hours of Bob including a couple of concerts it would appear. I also really enjoyed Nanci Griffiths' bit talking about Boots

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011p7wk

[Globaltruth]

If Bob and Van were fruits, what fruits would they be?

[Lateralthinking1]

Van is an apple, Bob is a fig. Next question.

[MrGongGong]

I really tried with the Dylan thing this afternoon on my trip down to Aldeburgh
but more or less all the comments were about the lyrics NOT the music
I get the Dylan as poet thing , fine but find the music does little for me ........ (unlike Van)
sorry
i'll leave you to it now

[gurnemanz]

I enjoy Schubert Lieder and Dylan songs about equally and play them with about equal regularity. They both have their duds and their masterpieces. If my arm were to be twisted, it would be Schubert, though, for the desert island.

[Globaltruth]

Van is an apple, Bob is a fig. Next question.

Now that Bob is old, tired and safe, who is the new Bob Dylan?