Joe Boyd's A-Z

[Lat-Literal]

By chance I came across this link to the Peel Archives. Joe B was commissioned to go through Peel's vinyl and choose 6 records. Thought it was an interesting selection.

http://johnpeelarchive.com/joe-boyd/

Well John, where do we start? There is so much good stuff there. Robert Kirby is a difficult one for me. I always want to talk at length about how brilliant his strings were on "Five Leaves Left" but then I have to add that the very best one of all - "River Man" - wasn't him or at least it wasn't principally. That feels so counter-intuitive that it almost irritates but then that is how facts are I guess. If I had to choose just one of the pieces of music on the links on that page, I think it would be "Shumba" because no matter how many times it is played it is wonderfully - and mysteriously - evocative. I just feel that it hits parts other music doesn't often reach. What would be your selections from that most impressive list?

Thomas Mapfumo - Shumba - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-mw9U5Fq4g

[johncorrigan]

Well John, where do we start? There is so much good stuff there. Robert Kirby is a difficult one for me. I always want to talk at length about how brilliant his strings were on "Five Leaves Left" but then I have to add that the very best one of all - "River Man" - wasn't him or at least it wasn't principally. That feels so counter-intuitive that it almost irritates but then that is how facts are I guess. If I had to choose just one of the pieces of music on the links on that page, I think it would be "Shumba" because no matter how many times it is played it is wonderfully - and mysteriously - evocative. I just feel that it hits parts other music doesn't often reach. What would be your selections from that most impressive list?

Thomas Mapfumo - Shumba - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-mw9U5Fq4g

As I've said to you once before a while back, Lat, I really like Boz Scaggs stuff in Muscle Shoals - it always feels special. And 'Piper of the Gates of Dawn' - when I listen to it now I find I know it so well - must have played it to death when it came out - for me the Floyd never capped it. But at the risk of being boring I'd have Toots every time. Here's 'Struggle' from the list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HyxN2c8QLM

But there's so much on the page that I just want to sit and listen to - a vinyl copy of Rural Blues would suit me fine too.

[Lat-Literal]

As I've said to you once before a while back, I really like Boz Scaggs stuff in Muscle Shoals - it always feels special. And 'Piper of the Gates of Dawn' - when I listen to it now I find I know it so well - must have played it to death when it came out - for me the Floyd never capped it. But at the risk of being boring I'd have Toots every time. Here's 'Struggle' from the list.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HyxN2c8QLM

A great choice.

As he has done Toots, it frees him up to do Tawney and Tabor for T. He has produced the latter and one of his very first efforts was apparently "A Cold Wind Blows" in 1966-67. I would like to know more as I've read it features 18 songs by Cyril and McGinn, Handle and Clayre "aided by the worthy talents of Peggy Seeger, Martin Carthy and David Spiers".

[johncorrigan]

I'm sure you can work out what D is, Lat.

http://www.acast.com/boydaz/letterd

[cloughie]

I'm sure you can work out what D is, Lat.
http://www.acast.com/boydaz/letterd

Denny or Danny?

And will F be Fairport or Fotheringay?

[Lat-Literal]

I'm sure you can work out what D is, Lat.
http://www.acast.com/boydaz/letterd

Nick Drake and John Cale and Northern Sky. As Ds go, that was utterly brilliant. "Northern Sky" is my favourite song of Nick's apart from "River Man". According to Wikipedia - and who am I to disbelieve it? - the reissuing of Drake's work on CD circa 1994 was prompted by another Nick in 1985. That is, Nick Laird-Clowes of the Dream Academy who not only based "Life in a Northern Town" on "Northern Sky" but put on its record sleeve the words "Nick Drake, Steve Reich & Classics For Pleasure". Quote: "As a result of this, the BBC began to field requests for Drake's song, while Nick Stewart, head of A&R at Island Records, pitched to the label that the songwriter's catalogue might then be ideally placed for re-issue to the then developing adult CD market". The first biography of Nick Drake was published in 1997 which, I have noted, was uncannily the year of "Sunchyme" by Dario G, a Top 20 single that was based on the Laird-Clowes song. "Day Is Done" which Joe Boyd also featured is, of course, fine too. Why on earth didn't the critics get Nick 1 in 1970-1971?

The best COMMERCIAL POP record of 1985 - and it has just got better given this information, even with the dubious film quality:

Dream Academy - Life In A Northern Town - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wLQNrr15sA

[johncorrigan]

Denny or Danny?

And will F be Fairport or Fotheringay?

He's basing each letter on the title of a song from his collection, cloughie. So 'A' was 'Ain't Misbehavin', 'B' started from 'Bam Bam', 'C' starts at 'Cuba Linda' by Alfredo Rodriguez etc. 'F' could be 'Farewell, Farewell', I suppose. 'H' might be 'Heart Like a Wheel' and he could have a look at the McGarrigles but he could just as easily do 'Hoochie Coochie Man and tell us something of his encounters with Muddy - who knows?...Joe, I suppose; but I have to say that I've been fair enjoying the ride so far.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

A very interesting post. That late teenage male distinction between blues and Tamla is somewhat new to me. It isn't surprising for a number of reasons, not least that the latter was very commercial. I recognise that those terms are shorthand for the distinction between the less and more commercial anyhow. A decade later, it is all about prog rock versus punk in that cohort but that relates more to slight age differences than it defines against the overtly commercial - mainly disco - which is outside that sort of dialogue altogether.

I suppose when I referred to calypso and ska I was strictly speaking referring to the roots of reggae rather than reggae itself. However, all these years later it feels neat to have them all under the same umbrella, especially as Jamaica got independence in 1962. There is the line of argument that when it got going properly, reggae was by definition less marketable to white audiences than any sort of soul. That it needed a Bob Marley to be its Stevie Wonder. While true, Bob didn't bring masses of new reggae artists into broad public awareness. In singles terms, the 1970s moved towards their conclusion with the "novelty" single by Althea and Donna rather as Millie had hit the big time briefly in 1964 with "My Boy Lollipop". Pop reggae - to the extent it was reggae - was not as popular commercially although there were exceptions including the sublime lovers rock single by Janet Kay. I think from the late 1970s it does shift into something different via punk, Letts, the Clash and John Peel, notwithstanding any extraordinary commercial success of two tone.

One can talk about Steel Pulse and Scientist and then Misty in Roots. There are also some clearer references back to the earlier years as that is what punk did too. But it is that period 1967 to 1977 that is still a little bit mysterious to me beyond pop reggae and Marley. I have filled in quite a lot of gaps but the pen picture isn't wholly clear and the same is to some extent true of the 1977 to 1985 period. What I am probably reaching for here is greater clarity about what was of appeal to British West Indians in those periods. I did do the Notting Hills but that was slightly later. There are a whole lot of broader questions. "Double Barrel" and "Monkey Spanner" were brilliant records and I feel that I want to say they were more than just pop. Ditto "Young, Gifted and Black" for B and M brought something special to an already special Nina Simone song. There are crossover points too. Lee Perry. John Holt who was previously in the Paragons charted in the mid 1970s. And then I'm wondering how Paisley viewed the Californian Dream but that is for another thread.

Guilty Pleasures :

Dave and Ansell Collins - Monkey Spanner (1971) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWiquDA5QYg

Janet Kay - Silly Games (12 Inch Version) (1979) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jp7nuVwKqY

As a mod in the early 60s Ska existed very easily with Tamla, Stax, Atlantic and Sue etc. Georgie Fame, as well as his residency at the Flamingo, also had a gig at the Cue Club in Paddington's Praid street, then fronted by Count Suckle of sound system fame, and with a mainly West Indian clientele. So Prince Buster fit right in way before Marley etc. Fame did a lot to push it and indeed cut some quite convincing early Blue Beat instrumentals. I can vividly remember shop girls dancing to Buster and Owen Grey etc in their lunch hour. Too vividly!

(Not skinhead shopgirls)

BN.

[Lat-Literal]

As a mod in the early 60s Ska existed very easily with Tamla, Stax, Atlantic and Sue etc. Georgie Fame, as well as his residency at the Flamingo, also had a gig at the Cue Club in Paddington's Praid street, then fronted by Count Suckle of sound system fame, and with a mainly West Indian clientele. So Prince Buster fit right in way before Marley etc. Fame did a lot to push it and indeed cut some quite convincing early Blue Beat instrumentals. I can vividly remember shop girls dancing to Buster and Owen Grey etc in their lunch hour. Too vividly!

(Not skinhead shopgirls)

BN.

That is very, very, interesting. Thanks for it. If you would be happy to come back with a few more comments, I would like to know quite a bit more. You obviously have - or had - a London perspective. Being born at the end of 1962, what I don't understand is what was standing against what circa 1959-1964 and the extent to which there were insular tribes. One image I have in my mind is of the jazz people gathering on key streets. The 1950s going into the 1960s. It was all very cool even if in terms of locations there was a heritage.

Rock n Roll from the mid 1950s was presumably quite distinct? If so, would it be fair to say that there was a lot of openness to crossover vis a vis genre at a certain point and if so when? Early 1960s? And did it combine if it did - and as your reference to Georgie Fame might suggest - in the area of rhythm and blues? This was the era of the Light Programme, the Third Programme and the Home Service. However, the commercial pop chart had commenced as early as 1952. My guess is that teenagers might have regarded even the latter as a bit "Al Martino" until the pirates and the advent of Radio 1 in 1967. It does puzzle me though. I can't fully comprehend who would have been "buying into" Eddie Cochran, Miles Davis, Lord Creator, Eric Burdon and Martha Reeves, given that at most there were five years between them at key points in their careers. Folk is clearer. It stands in its own right.

He's basing each letter on the title of a song from his collection, cloughie. So 'A' was 'Ain't Misbehavin', 'B' started from 'Bam Bam', 'C' starts at 'Cuba Linda' by Alfredo Rodriguez etc. 'F' could be 'Farewell, Farewell', I suppose. 'H' might be 'Heart Like a Wheel' and he could have a look at the McGarrigles but he could just as easily do 'Hoochie Coochie Man and tell us something of his encounters with Muddy - who knows?...Joe, I suppose; but I have to say that I've been fair enjoying the ride so far.

Do you know what? I hadn't quite cottoned on and yet I did know because I listened. What a fool I am. Tawney and Tabor now move to O for the The Oggie Man. Possibly........!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I will! Just to add to your ref to Muddy Waters. Joe Boyd (who also did a lot for the "freeish" jazz scene) was also involved in the first American Folk Blues tours of Europe (and the UK) from c. 1962/3. And those REALLY opened things up. Muddy, Buddy Guy, Wolf, John Estes, Sonny Boy, T. Bone Walker, Otis Rush, Lightin Hopkins etc etc ALL in the space of three or four years. A massive exposure and awakening, both to individuals and what was to become the R&B scene. My "awakening" was buying Sonny Boy Williamson a scotch in Bristol. "Hell, not a glass man, I mean a bottle"!

The Boyd programs sound really fascinating. So thanks for that, I'll check them out.

BN.

[Lat-Literal]

I will! Just to add to your ref to Muddy Waters. Joe Boyd (who also did a lot for the "freeish" jazz scene) was also involved in the first American Folk Blues tours of Europe (and the UK) from c. 1962/3. And those REALLY opened things up. Muddy, Buddy Guy, Wolf, John Estes, Sonny Boy, T. Bone Walker, Otis Rush, Lightin Hopkins etc etc ALL in the space of three or four years. A massive exposure and awakening, both to individuals and what was to become the R&B scene. My "awakening" was buying Sonny Boy Williamson a scotch in Bristol. "Hell, not a glass man, I mean a bottle"!

The Boyd programs sound really fascinating. So thanks for that, I'll check them out.

BN.

That is John. He recommended them and very good they are too. I am tempted to think that some of what you describe emanated from Newport as the old blues masters were there in numbers. Not too sure when Joe became involved but he was responsible for the sound in 1965. But.....I am now looking at the name George Wein as Joe worked for George earlier on and it was all about blues artists and Europe. The timing seems to coincide with what was happening at Newport around 1963-64 and very possibly beforehand.

Without wishing to press the point, if this was - as I instinctively feel - a jazz to rock transition via blues and rhythm and blues, where does the emerging soul music sit and for that matter the old rock and roll? I am not expecting you to spoon feed me so to some extent it is rhetorical although I would welcome a steer from you and other good folk. I would have thought that soul - by which I essentially mean anything from Tamla, 1964 to Northern Soul in the later 1960s - was for the kids. The new young - even if the Staxier end of it may have been accessed by the more serious. Also, I think we all know of people who were rock and rollers at 16 and still rock and rollers at 60. I'm just wondering - it is so easy to think in terms of rock and roll leading all the way to, I dunno, heavy rock in the 1970s - but was there ever a rock that rolled in that way? Did anyone like Chuck in their teens and love Deep Purple 15 years on? Obviously some kept with jazz anyhow and that developed of its own accord with some rock references and later funk/fusion for better or worse.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

That is John. He recommended them and very good they are too. I am tempted to think that some of what you describe emanated from Newport as the old blues masters were there in numbers. Not too sure when Joe became involved but he was responsible for the sound in 1965. But.....I am now looking at the name George Wein as Joe worked for George earlier on and it was all about blues artists and Europe. The timing seems to coincide with what was happening at Newport around 1963-64 and very possibly beforehand.

Without wishing to press the point, if this was - as I instinctively feel - a jazz to rock transition via blues and rhythm and blues, where does the emerging soul music sit and for that matter the old rock and roll? I am not expecting you to spoon feed me so to some extent it is rhetorical although I would welcome a steer from you and other good folk. I would have thought that soul - by which I essentially mean anything from Tamla, 1964 to Northern Soul in the later 1960s - was for the kids. The new young - even if the Staxier end of it may have been accessed by the more serious. Also, I think we all know of people who were rock and rollers at 16 and still rock and rollers at 60. I'm just wondering - it is so easy to think in terms of rock and roll leading all the way to, I dunno, heavy rock in the 1970s - but was there ever a rock that rolled in that way? Did anyone like Chuck in their teens and love Deep Purple 15 years on? Obviously some kept with jazz anyhow and that developed of its own accord with some rock references and later funk/fusion for better or worse.

Suggestion, if you are interested in this stuff, ck/out Richard William' s "Blue Moment" blog. (ex Guardian, Island Records producer etc). Extremely well written and with a past from first hearing jazz and r&b on French radio and being in Paris in the early 60s, (just like me) , on up thro every scene until curating the current Berlin jazz festival. A vast amount of fascinating stuff.

Best BN.

[Lat-Literal]

Suggestion, if you are interested in this stuff, ck/out Richard William' s "Blue Moment" blog. (ex Guardian, Island Records producer etc). Extremely well written and with a past from first hearing jazz and r&b on French radio and being in Paris in the early 60s, (just like me) , on up thro every scene until curating the current Berlin jazz festival. A vast amount of fascinating stuff.

Best BN.

Many thanks for that excellent recommendation.

The link is here - http://thebluemoment.com/

[johncorrigan]

JB's Putin' us into the area of Russian folk this week for the letter 'E' - rather wonderful- a touch of the Voix Bulgares in there in places, and a touch of Liverpool too.

http://www.acast.com/boydaz/lettere

[Lat-Literal]

JB's Putin' us into the area of Russian folk this week for the letter 'E' - rather wonderful- a touch of the Voix Bulgares in there in places, and a touch of Liverpool too.

http://www.acast.com/boydaz/lettere

Wow, this Soviet folk revival stuff is new to me although I know the Glasnost rock musician Boris Grebenshikov. I like the Farlanders' vocalist and can see the Sandy Denny comparisons. Did Seva Novgorodsev MBE give them airplay, I wonder, or was he generally focussed on Abbey Road etc? Oh......I've just got to Baba Yaga's "Back in the USSR". That's a coincidence. A bit Bulgarian, yes, but there is also perhaps a touch of Zap Mama. As for women's voices that are still holding up, Annie Haslam is not doing badly.

At 68:

Renaissance - Ocean Gypsy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoaBpFBrqOA

Whatever people think of the musical content - I have a very soft spot for it - there is surely no arguing that she has/had one of the strongest classical folk voices of all time.

It ranges far and wide this thread, don't it. That's what a good programme does.