Joe Boyd's A-Z

[johncorrigan]

I mentioned this a week or so ago - Joe's up to letter C, but letter B is about Toots - brilliant stuff!!!

http://www.acast.com/boydaz/letterb

C is Cuban (Alfredo Rodriguez in particular)

http://www.acast.com/boydaz/letterc

[Lat-Literal]

I mentioned this a week or so ago - Joe's up to letter C, but letter B is about Toots - brilliant stuff!!!

http://www.acast.com/boydaz/letterb

C is Cuban (Alfredo Rodriguez in particular)
http://www.acast.com/boydaz/letterc

Oh....this is brilliant. I have the letter B on now.

[johncorrigan]

Oh....this is brilliant. I have the letter B on now.

Toots...one of my all-time favourite voices, Lat.

...and C was just a Cuban delight.

[Lat-Literal]

Toots...one of my all-time favourite voices, Lat.

...and C was just a Cuban delight.

I love Toots. Not sure I agree entirely with Joe's perspective on reggae in Britain but then it is his very own perspective. I was wondering what you thought seeing that you weren't just seven when the sixties ended? My memory is of Desmond Dekker, Bob and Marcia, The Pioneers, Greyhound, Ken Boothe, Dave and Ansell Collins, Pluto, Susan Cadogan, Dandy Livingstone, Jimmy Cliff and others selling hugely either side of 1970. The Upsetters were slightly earlier and then a bit later of course there was The Harder They Come. I realise that quite a lot of it was poppy but some of it wasn't and even if the rest of it was it wasn't just skinheads who bought it.

There was the less marketable strand from calypso and ska although that too had its moments - perhaps especially The Skatalites - on to, I dunno, the quite early Wailers and the Ethiopians etc and then the Abyssinians plus a lot more before 1977. Even the U Roys and the I Roys and the Prince Far Is and Burning Spear. Dare I mention Labour of Love in the early to mid 1980s? The Campbells said that a lot of those songs were very regularly played earlier on in ordinary Birmingham homes. The great Johnny Too Bad and more. This is a waffly sort of post but I'm thinking we could have a thread on reggae as we had for country. Draw up a list of the very best?

[johncorrigan]

I love Toots. Not sure I agree entirely with Joe's perspective on reggae in Britain but then it is his very own perspective. I was wondering what you thought seeing that you weren't just seven when the sixties ended? My memory is of Desmond Dekker, Bob and Marcia, The Pioneers, Greyhound, Ken Boothe, Dave and Ansell Collins, Pluto, Susan Cadogan, Dandy Livingstone, Jimmy Cliff and others selling hugely either side of 1970. The Upsetters were slightly earlier and then a bit later of course there was The Harder They Come. I realise that quite a lot of it was poppy but some of it wasn't and even if the rest of it was it wasn't just skinheads who bought it.

There was the less marketable strand from calypso and ska although that too had its moments - perhaps especially The Skatalites - on to, I dunno, the quite early Wailers and the Ethiopians etc and then the Abyssinians plus a lot more before 1977. Even the U Roys and the I Roys and the Prince Far Is and Burning Spear. Dare I mention Labour of Love in the early to mid 1980s? The Campbells said that a lot of those songs were very regularly played earlier on in ordinary Birmingham homes. The great Johnny Too Bad and more. This is a waffly sort of post but I'm thinking we could have a thread on reggae as we had for country. Draw up a list of the very best?

I get a bit confused about the music terminology, Lat. Certainly in my experience the first Jamaican record which I remember turning my ear was Desmond Dekker's '007 Shanty Town', but it wasn't hip to like that - me and my pals were more 'blues' than 'tamla' to use the parlance of Paisley late 60s teenage boys. And I remember 'Israelites' hitting the charts (must be end of 69) and thinking it was v interesting. But looking back it wasn't reggae - most of the music that starts to come through was perhaps bluebeat/ ska and I think that JB may be picking up on the trend that followed of bringing music from Kingston and sticking a string orchestra on it, which I imagine would not have been to Joe's liking, but made the music more palatable to the early 70s pop picker. And you're right, Lat, it wasn't just the skinheads listening but they attracted the attention and claimed to be listening to hardcore ska etc - but perhaps not reggae. 'Harder they Come' appears about '73 and then there's a growth in interest in reggae but I would suggest it's Marley and the Wailer's live record that really brings reggae through into the mainstream. Toots' record 'Reggae Got Soul' doesn't appear till about '76 and that's an important record for me - I remember buying it and thinking that this was something quite different, but it's a good 3 or 4 years on from Jimmy's movie.

[Globaltruth]

I get a bit confused about the music terminology, Lat. Certainly in my experience the first Jamaican record which I remember turning my ear was Desmond Dekker's '007 Shanty Town', but it wasn't hip to like that - me and my pals were more 'blues' than 'tamla' to use the parlance of Paisley late 60s teenage boys. And I remember 'Israelites' hitting the charts (must be end of 69) and thinking it was v interesting. But looking back it wasn't reggae - most of the music that starts to come through was perhaps bluebeat/ ska and I think that JB may be picking up on the trend that followed of bringing music from Kingston and sticking a string orchestra on it, which I imagine would not have been to Joe's liking, but made the music more palatable to the early 70s pop picker. And you're right, Lat, it wasn't just the skinheads listening but they attracted the attention and claimed to be listening to hardcore ska etc - but perhaps not reggae. 'Harder they Come' appears about '73 and then there's a growth in interest in reggae but I would suggest it's Marley and the Wailer's live record that really brings reggae through into the mainstream. Toots' record 'Reggae Got Soul' doesn't appear till about '76 and that's an important record for me - I remember buying it and thinking that this was something quite different, but it's a good 3 or 4 years on from Jimmy's movie.

Well, as any fule know, really it's called 'Me ears are alight'

[Lat-Literal]

Well, as any fule know, really it's called 'Me ears are alight'

I get a bit confused about the music terminology, Lat. Certainly in my experience the first Jamaican record which I remember turning my ear was Desmond Dekker's '007 Shanty Town', but it wasn't hip to like that - me and my pals were more 'blues' than 'tamla' to use the parlance of Paisley late 60s teenage boys. And I remember 'Israelites' hitting the charts (must be end of 69) and thinking it was v interesting. But looking back it wasn't reggae - most of the music that starts to come through was perhaps bluebeat/ ska and I think that JB may be picking up on the trend that followed of bringing music from Kingston and sticking a string orchestra on it, which I imagine would not have been to Joe's liking, but made the music more palatable to the early 70s pop picker. And you're right, Lat, it wasn't just the skinheads listening but they attracted the attention and claimed to be listening to hardcore ska etc - but perhaps not reggae. 'Harder they Come' appears about '73 and then there's a growth in interest in reggae but I would suggest it's Marley and the Wailer's live record that really brings reggae through into the mainstream. Toots' record 'Reggae Got Soul' doesn't appear till about '76 and that's an important record for me - I remember buying it and thinking that this was something quite different, but it's a good 3 or 4 years on from Jimmy's movie.

A very interesting post. That late teenage male distinction between blues and Tamla is somewhat new to me. It isn't surprising for a number of reasons, not least that the latter was very commercial. I recognise that those terms are shorthand for the distinction between the less and more commercial anyhow. A decade later, it is all about prog rock versus punk in that cohort but that relates more to slight age differences than it defines against the overtly commercial - mainly disco - which is outside that sort of dialogue altogether.

I suppose when I referred to calypso and ska I was strictly speaking referring to the roots of reggae rather than reggae itself. However, all these years later it feels neat to have them all under the same umbrella, especially as Jamaica got independence in 1962. There is the line of argument that when it got going properly, reggae was by definition less marketable to white audiences than any sort of soul. That it needed a Bob Marley to be its Stevie Wonder. While true, Bob didn't bring masses of new reggae artists into broad public awareness. In singles terms, the 1970s moved towards their conclusion with the "novelty" single by Althea and Donna rather as Millie had hit the big time briefly in 1964 with "My Boy Lollipop". Pop reggae - to the extent it was reggae - was not as popular commercially although there were exceptions including the sublime lovers rock single by Janet Kay. I think from the late 1970s it does shift into something different via punk, Letts, the Clash and John Peel, notwithstanding any extraordinary commercial success of two tone.

One can talk about Steel Pulse and Scientist and then Misty in Roots. There are also some clearer references back to the earlier years as that is what punk did too. But it is that period 1967 to 1977 that is still a little bit mysterious to me beyond pop reggae and Marley. I have filled in quite a lot of gaps but the pen picture isn't wholly clear and the same is to some extent true of the 1977 to 1985 period. What I am probably reaching for here is greater clarity about what was of appeal to British West Indians in those periods. I did do the Notting Hills but that was slightly later. There are a whole lot of broader questions. "Double Barrel" and "Monkey Spanner" were brilliant records and I feel that I want to say they were more than just pop. Ditto "Young, Gifted and Black" for B and M brought something special to an already special Nina Simone song. There are crossover points too. Lee Perry. John Holt who was previously in the Paragons charted in the mid 1970s. And then I'm wondering how Paisley viewed the Californian Dream but that is for another thread.

Guilty Pleasures :

Dave and Ansell Collins - Monkey Spanner (1971) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWiquDA5QYg

Janet Kay - Silly Games (12 Inch Version) (1979) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jp7nuVwKqY

[Lat-Literal]

Toots...one of my all-time favourite voices, Lat.

...and C was just a Cuban delight.

That was excellent too. One of the main points there is the implied invitation to consider the respective merits of Alfredo Rodriguez and Ruben Gonzalez. I thought the point about the exiles and race was also interesting. That Cuba had been the Deep South more than the Deep South. Following the recent political developments, there will be further change in the future especially economically. I hope the spirit won't be lost. The older I become, and the longer the time that has passed since BVSC, the more I enjoy Cuban music, not less.

Alfredo Rodriguez - Cuba Linda - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRHWU3Kd9q0

Remind me please John.

What was A?

[johncorrigan]

What was A?

It started with 'Ain't Misbehavin'!' by Fats Waller, Louis Armstrong and Jack Teagarden, Lat. Then about Andy Razzaff (not sure 'bout spelling).

http://www.acast.com/boydaz/lettera

[Lat-Literal]

It started with 'Ain't Misbehavin'!' by Fats Waller, Louis Armstrong and Jack Teagarden, Lat. Then about Andy Razzaff (not sure 'bout spelling).
http://www.acast.com/boydaz/lettera

Thanks John. Apparently it is spelt Andriamanantena Paul Razafinkarefo and unlike any American President in history he was born in Washington DC. A nice start to the series in which JB seems to be somewhere between the radio versions of Bob Dylan and Garrison Keillor while being at least an equal to those two in terms of friendliness on the ears.

Now this is a rather odd map don't you think? The music of the United States courtesy of Wikipedia. While it isn't less than interesting and informative, it seems to say that there have never been any emerging or prevalent genres in some of the states including Kansas which featured in programme A. The Midwest is especially lacking but so too are New Mexico and Maine. Do we agree? Do we know enough to agree or disagree? My instinct is to disagree but then I have been giving special attention today to this crucial matter.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...USmusicmap.png

[johncorrigan]

Thanks John. Apparently it is spelt Andriamanantena Paul Razafinkarefo and unlike any American President in history he was born in Washington DC. A nice start to the series in which JB seems to be somewhere between the radio versions of Bob Dylan and Garrison Keillor while being at least an equal to those two in terms of friendliness on the ears.

Now this is a rather odd map don't you think? The music of the United States courtesy of Wikipedia. While it isn't less than interesting and informative, it seems to say that there have never been any emerging or prevalent genres in some of the states including Kansas which featured in programme A. The Midwest is especially lacking but so too are New Mexico and Maine. Do we agree? Do we know enough to agree or disagree? My instinct is to disagree but then I have been giving special attention today to this crucial matter.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...USmusicmap.png

No native American in there or do me ole peepers deceive me, Lat. Coastal is likely to develop as they're more melting pots. Mormon pop??? Is that the Osmonds? I suppose like in Africa there are countries which produce huge amounts of music and others less so, so with the States, maybe.

Here's a map I like.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/map_of_the_week/2013/05/bob_dylan_map_every_place_mentioned_in_a_bob_dylan_song.html

[Lat-Literal]

No native American in there or do me ole peepers deceive me, Lat. Coastal is likely to develop as they're more melting pots. Mormon pop??? Is that the Osmonds? I suppose like in Africa there are countries which produce huge amounts of music and others less so, so with the States, maybe.

Here's a map I like.
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/m...ylan_song.html

Wow.

I love that map!!!

Here's a Mormon although I don't think she was in 1961:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXoHK1GKRuo

[johncorrigan]

Wow.

I love that map!!!

Here's a Mormon although I don't think she was in 1961:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXoHK1GKRuo

So Glad's married to all the Pips, do you reckon Lat? Here they are doing one of my favourite bits of Tamla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUstKvUfQ8w

[Lat-Literal]

So Glad's married to all the Pips, do you reckon Lat? Here they are doing one of my favourite bits of Tamla.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUstKvUfQ8w

And Brandon Flowers of the Killers.

He's a Mormon.

I am a Tamla nut as much as a Stax one.

They are brilliant in different ways.

[johncorrigan]

By chance I came across this link to the Peel Archives. Joe B was commissioned to go through Peel's vinyl and choose 6 records. Thought it was an interesting selection.

http://johnpeelarchive.com/joe-boyd/