1000000 songs from SPOTIFY about...

[Globaltruth]

linking

There are one or 2 that I haven't been able to work out... I'll post them up at some point.

Well here's one -

Lat:how did you get to 'Double Barrel' from Grandmaster Flash? I'm sure there's a simple explanation...

[Lateralthinking1]

Hi Global - It is going very well, I think. I didn't know the Grandmaster Flash one and decided I would listen to the whole of it as "The Message" was such a milestone record. Thought I heard in it a sample of Double Barrel - I always loved that and Monkey Spanner too so any excuse to play them. Maybe I should go back and double check! Anyway, thanks for asking.

I'm a bit concerned about some ominous noises made this week about Spotty by Rory Cellan Jones. No need for immediate concern - this year looks fine for example - but it seems that the US is cautious about it and there are questions about royalties. It would be a real shame if it ultimately disappeared. Could our lists be saved somehow? I thought you said that you had the technical ability to do that? Lat.

[Globaltruth]

on Spotify

Hi Global - It is going very well, I think. I didn't know the Grandmaster Flash one and decided I would listen to the whole of it as "The Message" was such a milestone record. Thought I heard in it a sample of Double Barrel - I always loved that and Monkey Spanner too so any excuse to play them. Maybe I should go back and double check! Anyway, thanks for asking.

I'm a bit concerned about some ominous noises made this week about Spotty by Rory Cellan Jones. No need for immediate concern - this year looks fine for example - but it seems that the US is cautious about it and there are questions about royalties. It would be a real shame if it ultimately disappeared. Could our lists be saved somehow? I thought you said that you had the technical ability to do that? Lat.

Hey - you're right, it is sampled in there I'd forgotten that, bad really 'cos I only listened to it yesterday.

Spotify - I heard the same piece from the Beeb's tame geekster and there are also some ominous noises coming from the tech. press. I subscribe to TechCrunch, so had already read the same piece as Rory.

Spotify have had 10's of millions of pounds of investment, are still making a loss, have missed delivery deadlines.
Their business model (ads or subs) is clearly not making the returns that the venture capitalists require.
They are European only, have one or two partnerships (Sonos, Logitech) but no-one really heavyweight (Apple, Microsoft, Sony would be good).
The company themselves have a reputation for being awkward to deal with [see this interview with their founder Mr Ek], the user interface is a bit primitive, but it fetches and streams music incredibly fast...although there are occasional buffering problems, and I'm not sure their cross-platform updating always works quite correctly (pace the Phantom Poster)

so what does this mean to us?

As ever, there are no certainties in the world of technology.
3 possibilities I think:
1 they will be acquired. See previous list (Apple et al). That would be a good result in the short term, may become expensive for us in the long term. Could be why they are in the news, as VC's get restless and unleash the dogs of the media?
2 They will disappear. Unlikely at the moment, but need to keep an eye on them and their investors. Historically me and PS put quite a bit of effort into a lovely bit of technology from a company called Mixtape which let you reproduce virtual C90's. They just disappeared over night. Shame. But we had fun and I learned stuff. What more can you ask for?
3 They will become huge, then dominate and change the world of digital music (using what is known as 'cloud computing' which is possibly yet another disruptive technology in a long line of 'disruptive' technologies. I use the word advisedly. Actually I use the word 'disruptive'.)Some of these technologies aren't really that disruptive, some of which are so disruptive that we haven't realised yet... viz Wikileaks et al)

The pattern with new tech is for the first ones into the market not to reap the rewards (excuse the generalised, not qualified by fact, sweeping statement...)
There are other similar companies out there to Spotify (I'll post a few when I've got a bit more time to actually check them out).
Should we consider them? Will they overtake them?

Only the Shadow knows

In terms of backingup the playlists, all I can do is take a virtual screen-print and then turn it into some form of rich, or poor, text in the hope that some other technology may be able to interprete it as a request...I'll do that at some point. Bit rushed today, so apologies for a hasty answer.

This is a very interesting topic by the way, thank you for giving me the opportunity to reply.

And haven't actually discussed the whole world of Digital Rights Management (DRM) which is at the heart of this...

[Lateralthinking1]

Global - Interesting and thanks for taking the time and effort to explain this to us. I tend to have quite a sentimental attachment to the old formats. With each switch, there is normally quite a jolt, but I normally do move on. The older I get, the more I think I am being slow in doing so, then I find that I am ahead of most in my age group, apart from those who are technology experts. It always surprises me when people in their thirties start asking me for advice on things that I associate more with their generation. I do though tend to keep most of the music I have previously acquired. So I have some reel to reel tapes from the sixties, including some very early BBC recordings of the Beatles that were made just before I was born, then vinyl and cassettes and CDs. The latter was a big "should I or shouldn't I?" at the time. CDs then became my main big collection.

Once I had comprehended the legal issues on file sharing, I immediately ditched my tentative steps into that area - a site beginning with an "R" I think - and then went over to Napster when it became bona fide. I am really opposed to musicians not getting the money they deserve so in that way too I preferred that it was all above board. Mixed feelings there though. I did quite like the fact that it was groundbreaking and had a bit of a pirate past along the lines of, say, pirate radio and citizen band. Napster suited me far better than I-Tunes or whatever because of its catalogue and the fact that you weren't paying by track. I saw the other, more popular, sites as ones for those who just dipped in and out of music a bit rather than being for people who wanted more depth.

Then last year they changed their whole business model which did not appear to many of us to be fair to existing customers, particularly when it came to downloads over streaming. You should have seen the discussions about that subject! There were also licence issues. There is only so much patience someone can show in having to replace the same tracks over and over again. And it might have been my computer but I just found in the end that it was incredibly clunky. Everything just kept freezing up. It drove me crackers. I transferred quite a lot of stuff onto disk before I left it - it took me hours - but I've ditched it all because the same thing happened with that too. I do feel that I made the right decision.

Many said that the changes Napster introduced in regard to the customer plans were in response to Spotify. To this day, I can't quite get why Spotty has been seen as a "game changer" because it doesn't seem to me to be a massive leap from what has been provided elsewhere before. It too is partially subscription based and it also has licence issues. Having said this, I have now been won over to streaming over downloads - why clog up the system? - and I find it so much more user-friendly. Nothing freezes up and if you are moving a track up a lengthy alphabetical list, it can be scrolled continuously which makes a big difference. The presentation is attractive and it has new facilities for social interaction as we know. Because I am trying to keep costs down, I am actually on the advertising bit of it and I am not finding the commercials overly intrusive. So overall, I am finding it very enjoyable even though there is a part of me that would be sad to see the demise of packaged music. CDs are more tangible. You know that they are going to be there in the morning even if the international economy crashes overnight.

I think I might have seen way back a reference to Live365 in one of your posts. I have dipped into this too and again have mixed views. What is better? Everyone having their own "radio stations", which in some senses devalues the mission of radio, or just having stations provided all playing the same unimaginative chart material? I am not sure if someone has put this on here before. If so, my apologies for repeating - but here is David Hepworth on the subject of GLR. I don't think that he has the year right and I can't agree with him about Chris Evans. However - and I was quite a listener to that station - he picks up on some of these points. The idea, for example, that radio is in "retreat" and this I think could apply to the music industry as a whole, if not to the live experience then certainly methods of production - Lat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcSGGvhIojA

[Globaltruth]

It's the streaming aspect plus the fact that it's street legal which causes it to be thought of as iconoclastic. Plus the (as we know) increasingly wide choice of music.

Interesting point about formats - a lot of people don't realise that they never die. Let's just think about the 'paperless office' for a bit...

In the music world, vinyl is trendy again at the moment and there are still enthusiasts for cassettes, and the others (although I have nowhere to play my 78's ). There is and always will be a place for all these formats. (ahh - another unqualified, sweeping statement. Must try and limit them to 1 per post)
Picking the correct digital format is a challenge though, and another interestingly worthy topic for debate. but probably on Platform 3. Don't want the hosts moving my posts... : So I too have stuck with everything (well 90%) on CD even though it is ripped to a digital format.

In the meantime, on with the music. Please don't let it be Tangerine Dream.

[Lateralthinking1]

Yes, good points. I quite like Tangerine Dream now. Blame the BBC. BBC4 actually. The programmes on Krautrock, prog rock etc.
I went into them armed with decades of scepticism and the dictionary opened at "bombast". What I came away with was of course all those things but also the idea of "innovation", sadly lacking nowadays, "charm", surprisingly, and "self-irony", at least in the case of some of the interviewees. Not a case of rushing out and buying truck loads of it but they all had their places. Oh, and I was lucky enough to see Kraftwerk at the Benicasim Festival in 2004 which really was an exciting moment.

[Globaltruth]

Kraftwerk are someone I always wished I'd seen.

And in fact Holger Czukay (ex-chief engineer of CAN who I always mis-remember as Kaspar Hauser, someone quite different) has done some fascinating solo work...

We have hit a moderately rich theme in the citrus area it seems.
'Very appealing' as JC would say if he was around.

Now where's that Robert Johnson song... (travellin' Riverside Blues)

[Lateralthinking1]

It will be good to have JC back. There's the Suzanne Vega song "Wooden Horse (Caspar Hauser's Song)" from "Solitude Standing" which oddly I probably first heard on the David Hepworth GLR programme. The best track from that album in my humble opinion, although/because I never understood it. Mysterious - and now the new mystery is whether it alludes to KH. One day, we should perhaps have a thread called "Those you wouldn't have expected ever to have been at Womad but actually were". SV was one, I was there, and the atmosphere was great.

[johncorrigan]

That has been most illuminating guys - I have such a naive approach - I just thought it would all just stick around (mind you, I thought that about the old Beeb MB) - there needs to be somewhere for all this music - otherwise it just sits gathering dust in vaults. I struggle also to move on - have to say that apart from spotty and the car, my old dansette in the garden is what I love best with those old 45s (note to self - must get a new needle for it).

[Lateralthinking1]

A warm welcome back John. Was your trip successful?

[johncorrigan]

My wife didn't win the prize but her journey was successful and her work looked brilliant in the gallery. And I got to see the Betjeman statue in St Pancras, which I loved...and as you may see elsewhere I got to try mushy peas.(at least that's what I think).

[Lateralthinking1]

Mushy peas

http://media.photobucket.com/image/mushy%20peas/Dune16/Food/PieandMushyPeasii.jpg?o=23

Guacamole

http://media.photobucket.com/image/guacamole/awth44/guacamole.jpg?o=11

[johncorrigan]

Mushy peas

http://media.photobucket.com/image/mushy%20peas/Dune16/Food/PieandMushyPeasii.jpg?o=23

Guacamole

http://media.photobucket.com/image/g...amole.jpg?o=11

See that's what I thought Lat; but this minuscule portion definitely looked more like the latter than the former.

[Lateralthinking1]

Guacamole-gate, banana-gate and the tale of the Laughing Halibut - I've dined at the latter in my time. Next time you are in London, it is a good place for no nasty surprises.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/a-fishy-tale-david-milibands-chippie-claim/3644

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKBqQASyIcs&feature=related

And as this is a music thread, here's the Geraldine MacGowan Band and Maggies Mushy Peas/The Down Jig:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KjClHWlIpI

[Paul Sherratt]

John,
Glad the journey was succesful and I hope it brings about some decent interest.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_O_lhQWg8YFs/TNMFS04LMdI/AAAAAAAACBs/gdRBwy2Zz2Y/s1600/0910230215.jpg

http://www.sanjeev.net/poetry/betjeman-john/cornish-cliffs-182179.html