Prom 64: Sir András Schiff plays Beethoven Piano Sonatas (4.09.22)

[Rolmill]

Clifford Curzon I believe always played with the music in front of him.

Sviatoslav Richter also - so that's two excellent counter-examples to the 'soloists should play from memory' mantra!

As one who does a lot of (amateur) choral singing, mainly in small groups, I understand why the conductor might like their singers to memorise music, so that they can focus more on the conductor and the audience in performance, as well as listening to each other - all powerful reasons. However, I am bad at memorising music and therefore always resist such suggestions, on the grounds that the stress and potential for error outweigh any advantages. I also think that it is sometimes easier to memorise soprano parts than inner parts (alto, tenor especially).

As Jonfan says, it should be whatever makes the performer comfortable.

[jonfan]

My sister and I have always been excellent sight-readers on the piano but appalling at memorising anything, even the National Anthem. I wonder if the opposite happens-memorisers are bad sight-readers? Sight-reading is very useful when playing hymns thrust uopn you at no seconds notice, or accompanying opera rehearsals from an impossible orchestral reduction in Vocal Score.

[peterthekeys]

I don't think there is any particular merit in performing from memory. I think it comes form the simple fact that in learning a piece thoroughly in order to perform it, one ends up knowing it from memory. It's a pity that it's become a sort of mark of distinction.

I've done piano recitals reasonably regularly over the past 45 years, and speaking personally, I can vouch for it that if I'm going to play something from memory, it means a lot more work. Apart from anything, I have to define "pickup points" where I know so precisely what's happening that I can start cold from that point. One strange thing is that - in my experience - slow music is harder to memorise than fast (the only piece of which I've ever found that I could play it from memory without doing any extra work was the Toccata from Ravel's "Le Tombeau de Couperin" - which is fast motoric semiquavers throughout).

I've only ever played in public from memory once, and it was one of the scariest experiences of my life.

The benefits of playing from memory are that I don't need to find a page-turner, and that in some indefinable way I feel more "connected" with the music. Main downside is the appalling fear of something going wrong: even if I manage to bungle my way through to the next pickup point, I'm still not playing what the composer intended. And as for most of the time I play music which is hardly ever played by anyone else, there might not be anyone in the audience who noticed anything wrong. Which would make it even worse :(

Playing in public is stressful enough without having to play from memory!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My sister and I have always been excellent sight-readers on the piano but appalling at memorising anything, even the National Anthem..

I think the National Anthem is one of two things I can play from memory with confidence, the other being Mozart's Rondo Alla Turca.

However, on all types of woodwind instrument, I can play Match of the Day with aplomb.

[Lordgeous]

I remember being at a RFH recital given by an elderly Vlado Perlemuter; playing from memory he suddenly stopped in the middle of one piece, left the stage and returned with the music - to great applause as I recall. Has always been a favourite of mine, and a lovely man. His master classes at Dartington many years ago remain in the memory.

[Mario]

If anyone is interested, or is not aware, Sir András Schiff does a lecture-recital on LvB’s last PS Op 111 here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYRCOMAqnA

The YouTube video is 43 minutes long. I found it utterly captivating.

I hope you do too.

[rauschwerk]

Sviatoslav Richter also - so that's two excellent counter-examples to the 'soloists should play from memory' mantra!

As one who does a lot of (amateur) choral singing, mainly in small groups, I understand why the conductor might like their singers to memorise music, so that they can focus more on the conductor and the audience in performance, as well as listening to each other - all powerful reasons. However, I am bad at memorising music and therefore always resist such suggestions, on the grounds that the stress and potential for error outweigh any advantages. I also think that it is sometimes easier to memorise soprano parts than inner parts (alto, tenor especially).

As Jonfan says, it should be whatever makes the performer comfortable.

I got used to playing the piano from memory early on. I have a photo of myself playing without a score at a school concert aged about 7 - I think it was a Haydn sonata movement. About 20 years ago I set myself the challenge of doing a diploma exam and a 75 minute recital from memory. I drew the line at John McCabe's enjoyable Bagatelles (written in 12 note serial technique) but did memorise a Bach prelude and fugue. That was really hard graft!

I shall certainly seek out this Schiff recital. I love Op 110 in particular.

[Keraulophone]

His pedalling, just to mention one aspect , was little short of miraculous. Ok I’ll mention another - his chord voicing . Then the overall grasp of structure and the breath taking dynamic control. In short just about everything really….

This was one of those special occasions that, like Yo-Yo Ma's Bach Cello Suites Prom, will linger long in the memory. I've never been as close as row two in the Arena before, and chose to stand on the middle-right in order to see Schiff's face rather than his fingers. Before starting a movement, he would tilt his head slightly and half-smile to himself, as if anticipating the joys of what the composer was about to let him convey to the 4000+ listeners present. He sat motionless between the three sonatas, ignoring the small ripple of applause from the central section of the Circle between Opp. 110 and 111, treating the three as one, as he explained in KD's interview. Before Sir András walked on stage, a lady to my right informed her companion that this wasn't going to be as boring () as Schiff's Bach '48' Proms. Little did she know that he was about to begin with the E major Prelude and Fugue from Book 2 of the '48' - I couldn't help an inward smile at that point! Schiff has said that he begins each day with Bach, and not just one P & F but maybe half a Book, i.e. twelve of them. No surprise to me then that he should give us JSB at 11.40 on a Sunday morning. The real surprise was how seamlessly it flowed into Op.109, and thereafter his Beethoven was imbued with what one might call the spirit of Bach, such was Schiff's clear part-leading, his forensic ability to display the structure of the music to the audience, the half-pedalling which avoided muddying the harmony (I was watching his right foot carefully - miraculous, as EA says) added to the other-worldly drama of late Beethoven, not overdone but patiently revealed to us listeners standing a few feet away from the sonorous Steinway D. There were many moments when one could not imagine that the music should be played any differently. A quite extraordinary experience.
.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This was one of those special occasions that, like Yo-Yo Ma's Bach Cello Suites Prom, will linger long in the memory. I've never been as close as row two in the Arena before, and chose to stand on the middle-right in order to see Schiff's face rather than his fingers. Before starting a movement, he would tilt his head slightly and half-smile to himself, as if anticipating the joys of what the composer was about to let him convey to the 4000+ listeners present. He sat motionless between the three sonatas, ignoring the small ripple of applause from the central section of the Circle between Opp. 110 and 111, treating the three as one, as he explained in KD's interview. Before Sir András walked on stage, a lady to my right informed her companion that this wasn't going to be as boring () as Schiff's Bach '48' Proms. Little did she know that he was about to begin with the E major Prelude and Fugue from Book 2 of the '48' - I couldn't help an inward smile at that point! Schiff has said that he begins each day with Bach, and not just one P & F but maybe half a Book, i.e. twelve of them. No surprise to me then that he should give us JSB at 11.40 on a Sunday morning. The real surprise was how seamlessly it flowed into Op.109, and thereafter his Beethoven was imbued with what one might call the spirit of Bach, such was Schiff's clear part-leading, his forensic ability to display the structure of the music to the audience, the half-pedalling which avoided muddying the harmony (I was watching his right foot carefully - miraculous, as EA says) added to the other-worldly drama of late Beethoven, not overdone but patiently revealed to us listeners standing a few feet away from the sonorous Steinway D. There were many moments when one could not imagine that the music should be played any differently. A quite extraordinary experience.
.

Interesting he was half pedalling .I’ve never been convinced about that but I haven’t played many Steinway model 0’s . The dampers are usually on or off even in half position it’s one or the other but maybe Steinways have some subtlety I’m not aware of . I think half pedalling is really just subtle pedalling with the pedal half depressed so it can be done subtly. In the opening of op. 109 Tovey’s edition has the pianist pedalling the left hand semiquaver in the second beat of the bar but not the right hand that’s on the first beat. That’s surprisingly difficult to do.

[Bryn]

Interesting he was half pedalling .I’ve never been convinced about that but I haven’t played many Steinway model 0’s . The dampers are usually on or off even in half position it’s one or the other but maybe Steinways have some subtlety I’m not aware of . I think half pedalling is really just subtle pedalling with the pedal half depressed so it can be done subtly. In the opening of op. 109 Tovey’s edition has the pianist pedalling the left hand semiquaver in the second beat of the bar but not the right hand that’s on the first beat. That’s surprisingly difficult to do.

John Tilbury has an early 20th Century Steinway grand at home. I recall that, a few years ago, he was playing a historically wide-ranging concert at Cafe OTO, shortly after their old Danemann (which he refused to play) had been replaced by a Yamaha C3. His principal criticism of that newly installed Yamaha was that the pedal mechanism did not permit his half-pedalling The problem was resolved by suitable adjustments by the piano's supplier in short order.

"Half pedaling -- A sustain pedaling technique that artists use to manipulate the dampers in such a way that the damper felt barely touches the strings. The effect is a cloudy, atmospheric sound, not quite damped, but not ringing freely. This ability is built into the Steinway damper pedal action." from http://ilovesteinway.com/steinway/gl...no_index_h.cfm

[Ein Heldenleben]

John Tilbury has an early 20th Century Steinway grand at home. I recall that, a few years ago, he was playing a historically wide-ranging concert at Cafe OTO, shortly after their old Danemann (which he refused to play) had been replaced by a Yamaha C3. His principal criticism of that newly installed Yamaha was that the pedal mechanism did not permit his half-pedalling The problem was resolved by suitable adjustments by the piano's supplier in short order.

Yes I think it works better on some pianos it works better than on others. Clearly Schiff will almost certainly have his pick of Steinways current stock rather than have to put up with whatever is on the stage.

[gedsmk]

Yes I think it works better on some pianos it works better than on others. Clearly Schiff will almost certainly have his pick of Steinways current stock rather than have to put up with whatever is on the stage.

Schiff was to give a recital ages ago in a church near me which had a perfectly lovely Steinway Model D. His agent told the organisers that Schiff would bring his own.