Prom 64: Sir András Schiff plays Beethoven Piano Sonatas (4.09.22)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Prom 64: Sir András Schiff plays Beethoven Piano Sonatas
11:30 Sunday 4 September 2022
Royal Albert Hall

Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 30 in E major, Op. 109
Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 31 in A flat major, Op. 110
Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 32 in C minor, Op. 111

Sir András Schiff piano

Beethoven’s piano sonatas, says Sir András Schiff, ‘have lost none of their relevance and freshness’. In Schiff’s hands, every new encounter with these great but deeply human works – the so-called ‘New Testament’ of the piano repertoire – reveals new depths of character and meaning. According to The Guardian, his interpretations of the late sonatas, in particular, ‘sweep all before them’, and that’s what he’ll be playing today: Beethoven’s final trilogy of sonatas, music of wild imagination, profound tenderness and sudden, piercing beauty.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This is the order of programming given on the BBC webpage, but the original Proms list placed Op.110 as the final item.

I don't know which is correct.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A truly fine concert. I can’t imagine these works being played with greater understanding, but that’s only a personal viewpoint.

I was in the car when the concert began. I was slightly put off by KD’s introduction. The interview with Andreas Schiff was fine, but she seemed to have been programmed to highlight the BBC’s current obsession with performers playing/singing from memory, as though A.S. were an amazing new phenomenon. Isn’t that what most concert soloists do?

But as a general expectation, I think the concept if flawed. The two choruses in Rattle’s Mahler 2, were required to sing their lines from memory, while the LSO all had their music securely on their stands. I’ve sung in choirs that have been told, occasionally, to sing without their music, and it induces all sorts of ingenious ways of cheating, not mention the feeling of panic. At first, I wasn’t aware they were attempting to sing from memory, but then I noticed several people hardly moving their lips, and others looking quite terrified. There was safety in numbers, of course, but the requirement was quite unnecessary.

[smittims]

I don't think there is any particular merit in performing from memory. I think it comes form the simple fact that in learning a piece thoroughly in order to perform it, one ends up knowing it from memory. It's a pity that it's become a sort of mark of distinction.

[Ein Heldenleben]

A truly fine concert. I can’t imagine these works being played with greater understanding, but that’s only a personal viewpoint.

I was in the car when the concert began. I was slightly put off by KD’s introduction. The interview with Andreas Schiff was fine, but she seemed to have been programmed to highlight the BBC’s current obsession with performers playing/singing from memory, as though A.S. were an amazing new phenomenon. Isn’t that what most concert soloists do?

But as a general expectation, I think the concept if flawed. The two choruses in Rattle’s Mahler 2, were required to sing their lines from memory, while the LSO all had their music securely on their stands. I’ve sung in choirs that have been told, occasionally, to sing without their music, and it induces all sorts of ingenious ways of cheating, not mention the feeling of panic. At first, I wasn’t aware they were attempting to sing from memory, but then I noticed several people hardly moving their lips, and others looking quite terrified. There was safety in numbers, of course, but the requirement was quite unnecessary.

It might be a personal view but I suspect it’s fairly widely held . His pedalling , just to mention one aspect , was little short of miraculous. Ok I’ll mention another - his chord voicing . Then the overall grasp of structure and the breath taking dynamic control. In short just about everything really….

[LHC]

I don't think there is any particular merit in performing from memory. I think it comes form the simple fact that in learning a piece thoroughly in order to perform it, one ends up knowing it from memory. It's a pity that it's become a sort of mark of distinction.

Klemperer was once asked why he always used a score in music he almost certainly knew by heart. He replied that "The score is a good friend”. On another occasion he was asked why he always conducted from the score, when Toscanini was able to conduct without one. Klemperer responded "Because I can read music".

I can also remember a comment (possibly on this forum or on the previous R3 message boards) at a time when certain promenaders would stand at the front of the Arena and ostentatiously follow the score during a performance, that the score was something followed by audience members to show off, and discarded by conductors for the same reason.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I don't think there is any particular merit in performing from memory. I think it comes form the simple fact that in learning a piece thoroughly in order to perform it, one ends up knowing it from memory. It's a pity that it's become a sort of mark of distinction.

My thoughts exactly.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Klemperer was once asked why he always used a score in music he almost certainly knew by heart. He replied that "The score is a good friend”. On another occasion he was asked why he always conducted from the score, when Toscanini was able to conduct without one. Klemperer responded "Because I can read music".

I can also remember a comment (possibly on this forum or on the previous R3 message boards) at a time when certain promenaders would stand at the front of the Arena and ostentatiously follow the score during a performance, that the score was something followed by audience members to show off, and discarded by conductors for the same reason.

At the end of one of his complete Beethoven cycles Barenboim spotted an audience member in the choir stalls at the RFH with a score. He asked “How did I do , did I get it right?.”
Imagine being a soloist and hearing the pages turn in the Urtext being held by an audience member - with the odd flick back for the exposition repeat .Or worse them having a different edition….

[Bryn]

My thoughts exactly.

One particular advantage is the lack of need to turn pages, whether manually if dealing with a paper score, or via a footswitch or similar device controlling a screen display of the music.

I see EH has beaten me to it.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I can also remember a comment (possibly on this forum or on the previous R3 message boards) at a time when certain promenaders would stand at the front of the Arena and ostentatiously follow the score during a performance, that the score was something followed by audience members to show off, and discarded by conductors for the same reason.

It’s probably a quotation from Peter Gammond’s book “Bluff Your Way in Music”:

SCORE -
(a) Complete copy of the music being played that all the best soloists and conductors like to do without;
(b) Complete copy of the music being played that with-it members of the audience like to have.

[Bryn]

It’s probably a quotation from Peter Gammond’s book “Bluff Your Way in Music”:

SCORE -
(a) Complete copy of the music being played that all the best soloists and conductors like to do without;
(b) Complete copy of the music being played that with-it members of the audience like to have.

And in case (b) is very often not the edition being played.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It’s probably a quotation from Peter Gammond’s book “Bluff Your Way in Music”:

SCORE -
(a) Complete copy of the music being played that all the best soloists and conductors like to do without;
(b) Complete copy of the music being played that with-it members of the audience like to have.

I like following the score at home sometimes - particularly with works I don’t know well like last nights Mahler 7 . But I wouldn’t take one to a perf - not because it’s showing off but because its rather irritating for those sitting either side of you.

[jonfan]

I don't think there is any particular merit in performing from memory. I think it comes form the simple fact that in learning a piece thoroughly in order to perform it, one ends up knowing it from memory. It's a pity that it's become a sort of mark of distinction.

Exactly, it’s whatever is comfortable for the performer. Clifford Curzon I believe always played with the music in front of him. I once had the privilege of turning the pages for the great John McCabe in a Mozart Concerto. Every single note had a lightly pencilled fingering against it. He played mainly from memory but if his memory failed he could look up and see the pattern and position for his fingers straightaway.
I once had a pupil who insisted on playing her Grade 7 piano pieces from memory. No extra marks for doing that and if they come adrift no allowance for that either.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I once had a pupil who insisted on playing her Grade 7 piano pieces from memory. No extra marks for doing that and if they come adrift no allowance for that either.

I was encouraged but my teacher to do the same, but I declined. However, when I did Grade 8 singing a few years ago, the rules were inconsistent. Most works had to sung from memory, but if sing a solo from an oratorio, you did so whilst holding the music, as that’s what most singers do in performance. I can see a certain logic, but it’s a bit of a get-out too.

[smittims]

I confess, Heldenleben, to taking a score of 'Pli Selon Pli' to a performance, and the mere sight of it seemed to irritate a man who sat near me, But I did genuinely want to get the most out of the performance . I was careful to turn the pages silently and not to spoil anyone's view.

A different experience was at a 'Gurrelieder' Prom (1979 - Michael Gielen ). A lady nearby followed a vocal score she had lovingly wrapped in noisy Xmas paper, and several people were wincing in advance of each page-turn. At the interval I felt there was nothing to lose by a polite request, and the paper came off, to the evident relief of us all.