Prom 61: Chineke! performs Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony (2.09.22)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:30 Friday 2 September 2022 ON TV
Royal Albert Hall

George Walker: Lilacs
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 in D minor, ‘Choral’

Nicole Cabell soprano
Raehann Bryce-Davis mezzo-soprano
Zwakele Tshabalala tenor
Ryan Speedo Green bass-baritone
Chineke! Chorus
Chineke! Orchestra
Kevin John Edusei conductor

‘Be embraced, all you millions!’ Since the earliest days of the Proms, Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony has had a special place in each season – and with its climactic choral ‘Ode to Joy’, it’s one of those works that takes on a new meaning every time it’s played. This year, it’s performed by Chineke! – Europe’s first majority Black and ethnically diverse orchestra, along with Chineke! Voices. BBC Cardiff Singer of the World Nicole Cabell leads a world-class team of solo singers, and opens the Prom with the haunting Lilacs, the heartfelt song cycle with which George Walker became the first African American composer to win the Pulitzer Prize for Music.

[jonfan]

A great performance of the Ninth that exuded joy from the beginning to the end. Sprightly speeds gave a sense of freshness and a feeling of new discovery.

[smittims]

Sorry to rain on your parade, jonfan, but I feel I must post a balancing comment.

'Sprightly speeds' drove me to listen to this , and my fears were confirmed. 62 minutes overall, and only 12 minutes for the adagio, is too fast in my opinion. Even Hogwood is slower than that. I found it disappointingly superficial.

I realise that the trouble with this sort of concert is finding a fair or relevant comparison. If it were the Berlin Phil under a current maestro we could fairly compare it with Abbado, Karajan, etc. But I had to keep remembering that giving a landmark interpretation wasn't the purpose of this concert , but rather to make a point about ... (sorry, I'm afraid of not using the current politically-correct word).

[Bryn]

Sorry to rain on your parade, jonfan, but I feel I must post a balancing comment.

'Sprightly speeds' drove me to listen to this , and my fears were confirmed. 62 minutes overall, and only 12 minutes for the adagio, is too fast in my opinion. Even Hogwood is slower than that. I found it disappointingly superficial.

I realise that the trouble with this sort of concert is finding a fair or relevant comparison. If it were the Berlin Phil under a current maestro we could fairly compare it with Abbado, Karajan, etc. But I had to keep remembering that giving a landmark interpretation wasn't the purpose of this concert , but rather to make a point about ... (sorry, I'm afraid of not using the current politically-correct word).

What!? The Adagio would have been just a little too slow for its composer. For the whole work, anything over an hour fails to respect his very clear tempo indications.

[jonfan]

Fair comments Smittims but I must have been in the mood last night for a bit of joy and I got it in spades. On the radio one can’t see the performers anyway so enjoying and appreciating what you hear is all that matters.

[Ein Heldenleben]

What!? The Adagio would have been just a little too slow for its composer. For the whole work, anything over an hour fails to respect his very clear tempo indications.

Yes the Adagio last night was slower than crotchet = 60 . That’s the published score marking which is thought by scholars to be a good indication of what Beethoven was after . There is a real fashion (particularly amongst pianists to play LVB than slower it should be played. Schnabel (IMHO ) got it right….

https://academic.oup.com/em/article/49/1/129/6276767

[smittims]

Beethoven's metronome markings have been argued over for decades, of course, and it has been argued that either his metronome was faulty or he misread it (i.e. that he meant something esle).

Despite getting to know the symphonies by hearing Toscanini's recordings, I've always felt that attempts to match those markings, by such artists as Egon Petri, in the Hammerklavier sonata, and Herman Scherchen in the symphonies, miss the power and depth of feeling in the music. For this quality I go to Barenbooim, Furtwangler, Schnabel, etc. who I don't think 'fail to respect' Beethoven's music.

[Bryn]

Beethoven's metronome markings have been argued over for decades, of course, and it has been argued that either his metronome was faulty or he misread it (i.e. that he meant something esle).

Despite getting to know the symphonies by hearing Toscanini's recordings, I've always felt that attempts to match those markings, by such artists as Egon Petri, in the Hammerklavier sonata, and Herman Scherchen in the symphonies, miss the power and depth of feeling in the music. For this quality I go to Barenbooim, Furtwangler, Schnabel, etc. who I don't think 'fail to respect' Beethoven's music.

The 'faulty metronome' and 'Beethoven misread his metronome' arguments are, frankly. laughable. Beethoven was well aware of the role of tempo and how to record it. As Ries and others have mentioned, again and again, Beethoven was most put out when his music was played slower than he intended. The trend toward more stately performances of his work is often attributed to Wagner. Fortunately, in recent times, greater attention has been paid to what he notated as his intended tempi.

[Barbirollians]

The 'faulty metronome' and 'Beethoven misread his metronome' arguments are, frankly. laughable. Beethoven was well aware of the role of tempo and how to record it. As Ries and others have mentioned, again and again, Beethoven was most put out when his music was played slower than he intended. The trend toward more stately performances of his work is often attributed to Wagner. Fortunately, in recent times, greater attention has been paid to what he notated as his intended tempi.

Just because you disagree with them it does not mean they are laughable . Richard Osborne for example seems to have changed his views to become more sceptical of the metronome markings.

[Ein Heldenleben]

For those interested in the latest scholarship on the complex question of the Beethoven’s metronome marking in the Ninth I’m reposting this scholarly article from a 2021 edition of Early Music. It’s worth reading - rather than dredging up old discussions over Beethoven’s metronome. Even though he was deaf I’m pretty sure he could have clapped crotchet = 60 ( the tempo of the Adagio) with amazing accuracy

https://academic.oup.com/em/article/49/1/129/6276767?login=false

[smittims]

Thank you, Bryn and Heldenleben, for your views on this subject.

[Barbirollians]

For those interested in the latest scholarship on the complex question of the Beethoven’s metronome marking in the Ninth I’m reposting this scholarly article from a 2021 edition of Early Music. It’s worth reading - rather than dredging up old discussions over Beethoven’s metronome. Even though he was deaf I’m pretty sure he could have clapped crotchet = 60 ( the tempo of the Adagio) with amazing accuracy

https://academic.oup.com/em/article/...67?login=false

Yes a very interesting article and certainly the author does not dismiss sceptical views about the metronome markings as laughable.

[Ein Heldenleben]

For what it’s worth I reckon Chineke played the Adagio at approx crotchet = 70 . it took them 47 secs to play the first ten bars. But maths is not my strong suit.

[Ein Heldenleben]

For what it’s worth I reckon Chineke played the Adagio at approx crotchet = 70 . it took them 47 secs to play the first ten bars. But maths is not my strong suit.

Correction I mean - 50 crotchets a minute 17.5 per cent slower than LVB’s metronome marking.
How did I ever get those Maths o levels?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I’ve always taken the view that a slow movement should be just that, providing contrast with the quicker movements. However, in the case of Beethoven 9, even Klemperer takes the third movement at a fair lick, though it never sounds rushed under his baton. Just superbly judged. I doubt whether he cared too much about the metronome markings, as he rarely observed them.