Prom 61: Chineke! performs Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony (2.09.22)

[smittims]

Yes, it's all in the phrasing and rubato. I found this with Weingartner, less than three minutes longer for the Adagio than Friday's Prom, but no lack of repose or stillness.

My favourite is still Furtwangler, though, over 19 minutes in several of his performances, the slowest of all being the 1954 Lucerne Festival , with our own Philharmonia.

[Barbirollians]

Enjoyable but quite forgettable .

[Lordgeous]

Not even enjoyable for me I'm afraid. I only caught the last movement but I thought it rushed, precarious ensemble, choir sopranos flat, soloists questionable, except the bass - sounded like they had a job to keep up!

[DracoM]

Not even enjoyable for me I'm afraid. I only caught the last movement but I thought it rushed, precarious ensemble, choir sopranos flat, soloists questionable, except the bass - sounded like they had a job to keep up!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Not even enjoyable for me I'm afraid. I only caught the last movement but I thought it rushed, precarious ensemble, choir sopranos flat, soloists questionable, except the bass - sounded like they had a job to keep up!

I must catch up with this. I watched the TV broadcast of the first two movements yesterday, and was quite impressed. Despite the hectic tempo, the players seemed to be on top of things. So maybe things deteriorated towards the end?

[Maclintick]

in the case of Beethoven 9, even Klemperer takes the third movement at a fair lick, though it never sounds rushed under his baton. Just superbly judged. I doubt whether he cared too much about the metronome markings, as he rarely observed them.

OK judges this "conductor's graveyard" of a movement perfectly, since though it's likely he was as sceptical of LVB's metronome markings as other stick-wagglers of his generation, possibly believing either that the composer had gone mad or that his instrument must have been faulty, he scrupulously observes the adagio molto e cantabile instruction (my bold). This movement has to sing, which it can't do at the torpid tempo favoured by some.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I must catch up with this. I watched the TV broadcast of the first two movements yesterday, and was quite impressed. Despite the hectic tempo, the players seemed to be on top of things. So maybe things deteriorated towards the end?

I thought the finale rather good. I did find some of the short note values (almost staccato ) at the end of some string phrases a bit of an irritating tic - particularly in the celli and double bass version of the ode. Yes there was quite a bit of vibrato amongst the singers (unlike the strings ) but that’s par for the course these days.
The bass was tremendous with a very good O Freunde nicht diese Töne. We could have done with more of his Töne to be honest …

[LHC]

OK judges this "conductor's graveyard" of a movement perfectly, since though it's likely he was as sceptical of LVB's metronome markings as other stick-wagglers of his generation, possibly believing either that the composer had gone mad or that his instrument must have been faulty, he scrupulously observes the adagio molto e cantabile instruction (my bold). This movement has to sing, which it can't do at the torpid tempo favoured by some.

In the mid-80s Peter Ustinov wrote and starred in a largely undistinguished comedy called "Beethoven's 10th" which involved a resurrected Beethoven being foisted on the dysfunctional family of a waspish music critic in the present day. In one scene, Beethoven, having been furnished with modern hearing aids, is shown a HiFi and settles down to listen to a recording of the 9th. However, he is most perturbed when, having fallen asleep during the slow movement, he finds it still going on interminably when he wakes up. A perhaps unintentional comment on the length of time some performances were being stretched to in the the last Century. I'm sure if Bryn had written the play rather than Ustinov, he'd have included a comment on sticking to the original metronome markings.

Edited to add that I remember Karl Bohm's last recording of the 9th as a particularly egregious example, nearly 80 minutes long and with an adagio lasting over 18 minutes. However, I have just found this recording by a Brazilian 'film director and composer' called Maximianno Cobra. It last all of 115 minutes (yes, nearly 2 hours) and with an adagio lasting nearly 22 minutes. As might be expected, if is disastrously slow. Not for the faint-hearted!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irWsBKY4_k0

[Maclintick]

Thanks LHC. I'd wiped any recollection of Beethoven's 10th from the memory banks, despite having seen it at the Vaudeville Theatre in 1983, being a fan of LVB & Ustinov.

Re Maestro Cobra -- see my post #510 here:YouTube: the thread for interesting video links

[Bryn]

https://www.9beet2.com/campaign/9-beet-stretch/

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes there was quite a bit of vibrato amongst the singers (unlike the strings ) but that’s par for the course these days.

The string players used vibrato throughout.

[Barbirollians]

I thought the end of the second movement sounded rather a scramble and the start of the finale very careful - the Adagio was forgettable but I liked the first movement and for once I thought the soloists and the chorus were the highlight of the performance. I see Simon Halsey involved again - surely one of the greatest chorus masters of all time.

[smittims]

Thanks, LHC, for posting that Cobra video. I liked his tempo for the Adagio; it's a pity it was such a lifeless performance, with little or no attempt at expression. And his tempi for the rest of the symphony seemed incompehensible to me. I can only suppose he had some reason for this extraordinary concept.

[teamsaint]

It would seem that all is not rosy in the garden at Chineke! right now, with plenty of unpleasant allegations swirling around .

[Lordgeous]

Please enlighten us!