Prom 59: Elgar’s The Dream of Gerontius (31.08.22)

[edashtav]

For me two stars shone : Allan Claydon, wasn’t his diction superb? And full marks to Edward Gardner for the ‘freshness’ of his interpretation, his attention to detail and for not allowing 300 choral singers to sound like a pudding that’s sunk in the middle, nor letting them command that tempi be slow and sure. This was the best of Gardner.

[oddoneout]

Correct. No masks were involved, and I speak as one of the performers; I "experienced" the performance from the front row of the chorus.

I dare say there's never a performance of DOG where somebody afterwards doesn't complain that the demons were too polite.

It wasn't really a complaint, just an observation - at least the demons weren't half-hearted as I've heard in other performances, when singers/MDs perhaps haven't really sorted out how best to approach that section.
The singing was the best I've heard in a very long time, and certainly in a DoG performance, a joy from beginning to end for this listener at home, so thank you to you and your fellow chorus members. Clarity, diction and lack of operatics, so that the notes Elgar wrote could be appreciated.
Picking up on comments re: Jamie Barton, listening at home I didn't have a problem with the balance, and any american accent overtones didn't impinge.

[jonfan]

Correct. No masks were involved, and I speak as one of the performers; I "experienced" the performance from the front row of the chorus.

I dare say there's never a performance of DOG where somebody afterwards doesn't complain that the demons were too polite.

When I was in the Huddersfield Choral we tenors used to refer to the basses as ‘low born clods’.

[Master Jacques]

I dare say there's never a performance of DOG where somebody afterwards doesn't complain that the demons were too polite.

At the risk of singing from a too-familiar songsheet, I don't think anyone ever criticised a Barbirolli performance for over-polite demons - as witness his Hallé recording. Trouble is, he set a bar which is too high for others to jump!

[smittims]

In my experience 'Gerontius' has so many different aspects, and so many demands, that a fully-satisfying performance is very rare; some little thing here or there isn't quite right. I felt this performance was safe rather then outstanding, but with perhaps many hearing it for the first time maybe that was better than risking all and failing. I hope the man who 'didn't get' Elgar, in another thread, was listening.

One could nitpick over countless details if one wished, comparing it with favourite recordings. I've never liked the Angel's high F sharp 5 after 56 ('that sight of the most fair') as it always makes me jump. The lower octave alternative seems better to me. And I wish conductors would follow the marked tempo at the start of part 2. It often seems too fast; only Sargent, in my opinion got it right here. But I was grateful for the double bassoon's bottom C flat a bar before 55; I like to hear that. And the violas entering below the cellos at 1 before 125 ('There let me be') were just audible which doesn't often happen .

I've heard Ed Gardner do 'Gerontius ' better, about twelve years ago, with the lovely Christine Rice as the Angel.

A reminder for Elgarians: Sakari Oramo's fine First Symphony is repeated this afternoon at 3.30.

[smittims]

Sorry, I forgot to comment on the 'fast tempo' for 'Praise to the Holiest'. Listen to Elgar's own recording; it's faster than anyone I've ever heard. That also was recorded at the Royal Albert Hall.

[ARBurton]

Sorry, I forgot to comment on the 'fast tempo' for 'Praise to the Holiest'. Listen to Elgar's own recording; it's faster than anyone I've ever heard. That also was recorded at the Royal Albert Hall.

Oh those 1927 recordings are just wonderful. A thousand thousand pities the surviving recording isn`t complete!

[Lordgeous]

A VERY fine performance. Amazingly clear and powerful singing from the choruses - excellent diction.

Some blistering playing from the LPO, but real warmth when required too. Quite lovely and well judged.

Very well conducted (smilingly at points, with his chorus) by Edward Gardner. Knows the piece inside out (no score etc)

Only quibble point is the choice of soloists. Jamie Barton lacked volume (at least in the Hall), and produced some uncomfortably American vowel sounds which were sprung like traps ("My work is done/ My task is o’er....My Father gave/ In charge to me/ This child of earth/ E’en from its birth..."). She sang one or more of the Alleluias like she was in a gospel choir.

Allan Clayton is made for this music - but his interpretation is still evolving. James Platt likewise, some slightly mushy diction notwithstanding.

8.5 out of 10.

The Guardian agrees.

Matters of balance between voices and a suitably rich orchestral sound were generally not problematic, with the exception of Barton’s Angel, who sounded surprisingly underpowered and undistinguished. Her diction was indistinct, her high notes effortful – the Alleluia just before Gerontius goes to his judgment was a hit-and-hope affair – and her delivery of the Farewell as detached and chilly as her description of Saint Francis’s stigmata had been matter of fact.

[Prommer]

Is there a live recording of Barbirolli conducting Gerontius?

[Master Jacques]

Is there a live recording of Barbirolli conducting Gerontius?

There are several, of which the recording made in Rome during 1957, with the RAI Orchestra and Coro di Roma - not forgetting Jon Vickers, Constance Shacklock and Marian Nowakowski - makes the most interesting contrast with the famous HMV studio recording. His Italian demons make a fearsome racket! Barbirolli's approach in Rome was even more markedly operatic, and Vickers is a compelling and very rugged Gerontius, well outside the "English oratorio tenor" tradition. Shacklock was the go-to Angel of the late 1950s, and the (now almost forgotten) Nowakowski is equally good.

[Prommer]

There are several, of which the recording made in Rome during 1957, with the RAI Orchestra and Coro di Roma - not forgetting Jon Vickers, Constance Shacklock and Marian Nowakowski - makes the most interesting contrast with the famous HMV studio recording. His Italian demons make a fearsome racket! Barbirolli's approach in Rome was even more markedly operatic, and Vickers is a compelling and very rugged Gerontius, well outside the "English oratorio tenor" tradition. Shacklock was the go-to Angel of the late 1950s, and the (now almost forgotten) Nowakowski is equally good.

Many thanks!

[vibratoforever]

Is there a live recording of Barbirolli conducting Gerontius?

A live version from New York in 1959, available from SOMM, with Richard Lewis, Maureen Forrester and NYPO is perhaps the best. The RAI has the benefit of Vickers glorious singing and there are a couple of off-air performances doing the rounds and finally the Warner Barbirolli box has an incomplete performance.

[Andrew]

Not knowing this piece I was interested to hear it. I listened to it on B.B.C. Sounds, in one sitting and thought it a very "rich" sound, with a "full" orchestration. As Elgar is alleged to have said: "this is the best of me'........... I thought it was!

[gradus]

Andrew Davis's 1991 performance is still my favourite from the Proms not least for Florence Quivar whose glorious voice suited the role perfectly, no problems with the big Allelujah for Florence and Alistair Miles is excellent too. Its on Youtube and better still, Richard Baker was the presenter.

[smittims]

Thanks, gradus, I'll look up that A Davis performance. I think I heard it at the time.

My all-time favourite is still the 1954 Sargent with my favourite Angel, Marjorie Thomas. I admit the demons are not very demonic, but as I said before, no 'Gerontius ' is perfect.