Prom 49: Rattle conducts Mahler’s ‘Resurrection’ Symphony (24.08.22)

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes! RPO/Brighton Festival Chorus/Lawrence Foster at the RFH, late 1970s. I don't think it's 'optional' as such - Mahler wanted it sung, but clearly there's the octave higher also in the score for those who can't reach down there. MS:



The Brighton choir of that era had some deep basses. They sang a semitone lower (i.e. three ledger lines below the bass clef) in Kodaly's Psalmus Hungaricus in the LSO recording for Decca conducted by Kertez. It was before I joined their ranks, but apparently when the bottom A emerged, some astonished faces among the double bass section were looking around to see where the note was coming from!
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You’re right . I looked at the score again and at this point both tenors and basses are divided - so for the basses there are options. Since later on they are also asked to do a top F that means some need a two and a half octave range.

[kernelbogey]

I haven't spotted mention that the TV broadcast will be Sunday next on BBC4 - I'm looking forward to it!

The Mahler at 2000 (on 28.8.22) is preceded by an hour of Sir Simon Rattle at the BBC:
Since his breakthrough in the 1970s, Sir Simon Rattle has performed alongside the world’s leading orchestras and soloists. This collection focuses attention on some of his finest broadcast moments from the BBC archive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000z2d8

[LHC]

The Mahler at 2000 (on 28.8.22) is preceded by an hour of Sir Simon Rattle at the BBC:
Since his breakthrough in the 1970s, Sir Simon Rattle has performed alongside the world’s leading orchestras and soloists. This collection focuses attention on some of his finest broadcast moments from the BBC archive.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000z2d8

Instead of showing these collections of perfunctory clips, I would much rather the BBC occasionally showed some of the complete performances they have in their archives.

[RichardB]

I haven't yet had time to listen to this performance but I guess I might have made time if I were more enthusiastic about Rattle's conducting in general. He is obviously a sympathetic character, and, on the basis of concerts I've attended, he has a flawless conducting technique and the ability to get exactly what he wants out of the players he's working with. And yet... for me there is always something indefinable that's missing. When it comes to Mahler, we're made aware, with (to name conductors whose Mahler recordings I know best and/or have listened to most recently) Gielen, Kubelík, Boulez, Bernstein, Roth, Walter, or Norrington, what and how that conductor thinks about the music. I'm not sure I hear such a thing in Rattle's interpretations. Some people might see that as a positive point, and I would be the first to insist on interpretations that put the music first, so to speak, rather than the performer's personality, but that isn't quite the issue. I might have something a bit more meaningful to say when I've had a chance to listen...

[Ein Heldenleben]

I haven't yet had time to listen to this performance but I guess I might have made time if I were more enthusiastic about Rattle's conducting in general. He is obviously a sympathetic character, and, on the basis of concerts I've attended, he has a flawless conducting technique and the ability to get exactly what he wants out of the players he's working with. And yet... for me there is always something indefinable that's missing. When it comes to Mahler, we're made aware, with (to name conductors whose Mahler recordings I know best and/or have listened to most recently) Gielen, Kubelík, Boulez, Bernstein, Roth, Walter, or Norrington, what and how that conductor thinks about the music. I'm not sure I hear such a thing in Rattle's interpretations. Some people might see that as a positive point, and I would be the first to insist on interpretations that put the music first, so to speak, rather than the performer's personality, but that isn't quite the issue. I might have something a bit more meaningful to say when I've had a chance to listen...

During lockdown the BBC put out the Bernstein Mahler 5 with he did with the VPO from the Proms archive . I could not get the performance out of my mind. It was absolutely extraordinary right from the first trump to the last. Something to do with phrasing, paragraph shaping , pace , a sense of inevitability and purpose. I just don’t know how he did it…

[RichardB]

During lockdown the BBC put out the Bernstein Mahler 5 with he did with the VPO from the Proms archive . I could not get the performance out of my mind. It was absolutely extraordinary right from the first trump to the last. Something to do with phrasing, paragraph shaping , pace , a sense of inevitability and purpose. I just don’t know how he did it…

Indeed Bernstein's 2nd with the NYPO (also a live recording) has been my first choice for this work for a long time.

[richardfinegold]

Bernstein made his sympathies with Mahler well known,and imo remains his foremost interpreter. I find it interesting that given his interest in GM he never conducted any of the completions of the Tenth

[cloughie]

Bernstein made his sympathies with Mahler well known,and imo remains his foremost interpreter. I find it interesting that given his interest in GM he never conducted any of the completions of the Tenth

Perhaps he was interested in what Mahler wrote rather than the thoughts of others on what he might have written!

[Serial_Apologist]

Perhaps he was interested in what Mahler wrote rather than the thoughts of others on what he might have written!

But those would also have been interpretations, right?

[RichardB]

Bernstein made his sympathies with Mahler well known,and imo remains his foremost interpreter. I find it interesting that given his interest in GM he never conducted any of the completions of the Tenth

Indeed it's something he could have had a go at himself! But he wasn't of course the only one among leading Mahler interpreters not to do that. I can easily see why conductors wouldn't wish to conduct the Deryck Cooke version which (unfortunately IMO) has become some kind of standard despite its (deliberate) unimaginativeness, compared to my own favourite Mazzetti II version.

[kernelbogey]

Instead of showing these collections of perfunctory clips, I would much rather the BBC occasionally showed some of the complete performances they have in their archives.

The BBC recognises, in creating Sounds, that 'listening to the radio' no longer has to happen simultaneously with a broadcast; the same being true of the creation of the iPlayer for watching programmes at the time that suits the viewer. There must be a vast archive of musical performances recorded in either audio or video+audio that should get more airtime. BBC4 is broadcast tonight, for example, for only 8.5 hours. There is plenty of scope for more archive material to be retrieved and re-broadcast.

I'd go so far as to argue, for the huge audio treasure trove, for the creation of a Radio Three Extra!

[symphony1010]

I have been away a lot this summer but have been catching up on BBC Sounds and noticed the awful compression being applied, at least on the relays I have been listening to. Is it just me? I find most of the big symphonic programmes unlistenable as all dynamics have been pretty well eliminated.
It's all a far cry from the excellent recordings many years ago. I had thought that the digital feed had no interference of this kind but it seems things have changed. The discussion here about hearing the organ etc is almost irrelevant when you consider that all the peaks have been 'tamed'. I went to the Tennstedt and finally found some emotional involvement as others have described. In all honesty with compression like this serious listening is almost impossible on decent equipment.

[Petrushka]

The BBC recognises, in creating Sounds, that 'listening to the radio' no longer has to happen simultaneously with a broadcast; the same being true of the creation of the iPlayer for watching programmes at the time that suits the viewer. There must be a vast archive of musical performances recorded in either audio or video+audio that should get more airtime. BBC4 is broadcast tonight, for example, for only 8.5 hours. There is plenty of scope for more archive material to be retrieved and re-broadcast.

I'd go so far as to argue, for the huge audio treasure trove, for the creation of a Radio Three Extra!

Don't I remember reading a BBC Press release a few years ago saying that it was the BBC's intention to make its archive available to all? Since then the silence has been deafening. How's it going, Auntie, any news?

[cloughie]

Don't I remember reading a BBC Press release a few years ago saying that it was the BBC's intention to make its archive available to all? Since then the silence has been deafening. How's it going, Auntie, any news?

My guess it is all now either much wiped in the hand of a third party who got it on the cheap!

[cloughie]

The BBC recognises, in creating Sounds, that 'listening to the radio' no longer has to happen simultaneously with a broadcast; the same being true of the creation of the iPlayer for watching programmes at the time that suits the viewer. There must be a vast archive of musical performances recorded in either audio or video+audio that should get more airtime. BBC4 is broadcast tonight, for example, for only 8.5 hours. There is plenty of scope for more archive material to be retrieved and re-broadcast.

I'd go so far as to argue, for the huge audio treasure trove, for the creation of a Radio Three Extra!

…and you’ll be telling is next that pigs fly, you know they do - no, it was just a dream!