Prom 49: Rattle conducts Mahler’s ‘Resurrection’ Symphony (24.08.22)

[gedsmk]

Yes but it was in tune !

Yes, it was. So no reeds then? I will need to check. Perhaps explains the “there’s something missing” feeling I had with the final chord.
Really stupendous: orchestra and chorus
Soloists were lovely but some timing issues, and why breathe before “rot”?

I’m sorry BBC aren’t doing the surround broadcasts on the website this season.

[Lordgeous]

"Nearly a 10/10, except for, ultimately, not enough organ. I could still hear the strings!"

Were you there or listening to the broadcast? Me the latter, and certainly as broadcast I was hardly aware of the organ (on HQ equipment). So disappointing. BBC, for all that I admire them, just couldn't cope with the huge dynamic range of this piece, it seems. Climaxes underwhelming and choral entry far too loud - that should be the quietest choral event in all musical history, I read recemtly. Nevertheless I enjoyed what seemed like a thoroughly decent performance; excellent soloists and chorus and wonderful orchestral playing. Well paced by sir Simon. Wish I'd been there.

[King_Ouf_I]

I was in the hall both last night and tonight. I have a feeling that despite the magnificent playing and singing, it is last night’s concert that will stick longer in the memory than tonight’s. Perhaps I’m just too familiar with Rattle’s way with Mahler 2. Or maybe it’s just that whilst tonight my expectations were met, last night they were exceeded. Still, two wonderful performances.

[kernelbogey]

Having to listen on inferior equipment (don't ask) may have affected this perception, but although in the past I have claimed this to be one of the greatest of all symphonies, I found myself blanching at some of the words, in the last movement particularly. Although the language is thoroughly familiar - Der Mensch ist in groesster Not: Yes - the idea of resurrection (except in the psychological sense) stuck in my throat a bit tonight. I kept noticing the vividness of some of the language of bodily resurrection - mein Staub etc - and being reminded of the idea that Christianity's USP in the first century was the idea of the dead arising.....

Edit: I think listening to this in the Hall, or on good equipment, may help transcend some of the language I refer to: it's easy to get carried away in the last movement coda; and the first movement is wonderful in almost every way. I can accept that those with faith may feel differently about the sung words. Mahler's conversion to Christianity, for whatever reasons, is being celebrated here.

[antongould]

Rattle at his considerable best and the finest orchestral playing I’ve heard this season.

Look forward to listening to this on Sounds …….

[Ein Heldenleben]

Having to listen on inferior equipment (don't ask) may have affected this perception, but although in the past I have claimed this to be one of the greatest of all symphonies, I found myself blanching at some of the words, in the last movement particularly. Although the language is thoroughly familiar - Der Mensch ist in groesster Not: Yes - the idea of resurrection (except in the psychological sense) stuck in my throat a bit tonight. I kept noticing the vividness of some of the language of bodily resurrection - mein Staub etc - and being reminded of the idea that Christianity's USP in the first century was the idea of the dead arising.....

Edit: I think listening to this in the Hall, or on good equipment, may help transcend some of the language I refer to: it's easy to get carried away in the last movement coda; and the first movement is wonderful in almost every way. I can accept that those with faith may feel differently about the sung words. Mahler's conversion to Christianity, for whatever reasons, is being celebrated here.

Isn’t the usual ecstatic (in the non religious sense ) response to the end of the Resurrection rather similar to the enthusiastic applauding at Party conferences? - only a minority really believe it and the rest think it’s a vaguely good idea. As a USP though the promise of Eternal life takes some beating.
Seriously though aren’t most people just responding to Mahler’s music and not the text ? - many won’t even know what the words mean. My “problem “ with the symphony are movements 2 and 3 which often sound a bit meandering. Great first , fourth and fifth though.

[cloughie]

Isn’t the usual ecstatic (in the non religious sense ) response to the end of the Resurrection rather similar to the enthusiastic applauding at Party conferences? - only a minority really believe it and the rest think it’s a vaguely good idea. As a USP though the promise of Eternal life takes some beating.
Seriously though aren’t most people just responding to Mahler’s music and not the text ? - many won’t even know what the words mean. My “problem “ with the symphony are movements 2 and 3 which often sound a bit meandering. Great first , fourth and fifth though.

An interesting point of view - to me the meanderings are an integral part of the beauty and length of the work. Perhaps like cholesterol there are good and bad meanderings!

[Ein Heldenleben]

An interesting point of view - to me the meanderings are an integral part of the beauty and length of the work. Perhaps like cholesterol there are good and bad meanderings!

Yes but I never get that sense in Bruckner or Wagner of equal length. I also don’t get that sense in Mahler 1 4,5,6 and 9 .I don’t know 3 , 7 and 8 well enough. I suppose what I am saying is that some of the musical material just doesn’t cut it.

[cloughie]

Yes but I never get that sense in Bruckner or Wagner of equal length. I also don’t get that sense in Mahler 1 4,5,6 and 9 .I don’t know 3 , 7 and 8 well enough. I suppose what I am saying is that some of the musical material just doesn’t cut it.

The marmite factor comes into play again - we’ll agree to differ - I can think of much more meandering in some Bruckner finales and certainly in the early Symphonies (1 & 2) of Dvorak, but then he still had his L plates on! I wouldn’t compare Wagner as Symphonies were not his thing and I don’t see comparing Syms with operas as valid!

[Ein Heldenleben]

The marmite factor comes into play again - we’ll agree to differ - I can think of much more meandering in some Bruckner finales and certainly in the early Symphonies (1 & 2) of Dvorak, but then he still had his L plates on! I wouldn’t compare Wagner as Symphonies were not his thing and I don’t see comparing Syms with operas as valid!

Ooh Wagner not symphonic ..I beg to differ…

[Prommer]

It was not quite the unforgettable concert one was rather praying for.

[cloughie]

Ooh Wagner not symphonic ..I beg to differ…

Don’t misinterpret me - Mahler majored in Symphonies - Wagner majored in Opera. I’ll not get into any discussion as to whether Operas are Symphonic or for that matter Symphonies are operatic my musical/musicological knowledge does not stretch that far. Clearly my love of Wagner’s Preludes, Liebestod, Good Friday Music, Bacchanale, Valkary Ride and Rhine Journey leave me in no doubt of the high quality of Wagner’s Orchestral writing. Did he meander in his operas - probably a smidgen - they were long, so he could’ve got away with it - does it matter - not really!

[Lordgeous]

It was not quite the unforgettable concert one was rather praying for.

Close but no cigar?!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Don’t misinterpret me - Mahler majored in Symphonies - Wagner majored in Opera. I’ll not get into any discussion as to whether Operas are Symphonic or for that matter Symphonies are operatic my musical/musicological knowledge does not stretch that far. Clearly my love of Wagner’s Preludes, Liebestod, Good Friday Music, Bacchanale, Valkary Ride and Rhine Journey leave me in no doubt of the high quality of Wagner’s Orchestral writing. Did he meander in his operas - probably a smidgen - they were long, so he could’ve got away with it - does it matter - not really!

A lot of scholars liken the arc of Tristan , Die Meistersinger , Die Walküre , Siegfried and Gotterdamerung to gigantic symphonies . One or two even think the Ring a gigantic symphony - maybe going too far . A more sustainable position is Wagner’s mastery of motivic development, tonality and transition. I think he is a greater “ symphonist” than Mahler ( and I reckon Gustav might well have agreed with me ). Although I’ve been bored in Wagner I always feel the music is going somewhere - sometimes with Mahler - particularly in those fiddly note- spinning inner movements I just wonder where we are headed.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It was not quite the unforgettable concert one was rather praying for.

Yes agreed - why was that ?