Prom 49: Rattle conducts Mahler’s ‘Resurrection’ Symphony (24.08.22)

[Ein Heldenleben]

Don't I remember reading a BBC Press release a few years ago saying that it was the BBC's intention to make its archive available to all? Since then the silence has been deafening. How's it going, Auntie, any news?

It’s almost certainly because either the original artists contracts don’t cover rebroadcast on non- radio media in perpetuity and even if they did the repeat fees would be enormous. There could even be specific exclusion clauses which prevent such re -release because they would cut across the recording contracts the orchestra and performers had with record companies . So for example while DG might be ok with the BBC repeating the Bernstein VPO Mahler 5/Prom for a limited 30 day window they might not be so happy about us being available in perpetuity. There’s a big difference between repeating a concert on radio / sounds , making it available for 30 days and making it available for ever.
I also remember hearing from the Controller R3 in an interview that another problem is that while a lot of recordings survive the paperwork is either missing , incomplete or ambiguous.

[Lordgeous]

I have been away a lot this summer but have been catching up on BBC Sounds and noticed the awful compression being applied, at least on the relays I have been listening to. Is it just me? I find most of the big symphonic programmes unlistenable as all dynamics have been pretty well eliminated.
It's all a far cry from the excellent recordings many years ago. I had thought that the digital feed had no interference of this kind but it seems things have changed. The discussion here about hearing the organ etc is almost irrelevant when you consider that all the peaks have been 'tamed'. I went to the Tennstedt and finally found some emotional involvement as others have described. In all honesty with compression like this serious listening is almost impossible on decent equipment.

No, it's not just you. I'm glad it's not just me!

[Maclintick]

It’s almost certainly because either the original artists contracts don’t cover rebroadcast on non- radio media in perpetuity and even if they did the repeat fees would be enormous. There could even be specific exclusion clauses which prevent such re -release because they would cut across the recording contracts the orchestra and performers had with record companies

Yup -- it all depends on the original contract. Apart from record company exclusions, there are some extremely well-known and well-regarded artists who refuse broadcasts point-blank for fear of being digitally ripped-off. I was present at that VPO/Bernstein GM5 in 1987, but to my admittedly imperfect knowledge it has never been repeated until 2020...doubtless for the reasons you adduce. DG released the Lucerne concert from the same tour, IIRC.

[Prommer]

Yup -- it all depends on the original contract. Apart from record company exclusions, there are some extremely well-known and well-regarded artists who refuse broadcasts point-blank for fear of being digitally ripped-off. I was present at that VPO/Bernstein GM5 in 1987, but to my admittedly imperfect knowledge it has never been repeated until 2020...doubtless for the reasons you adduce. DG released the Lucerne concert from the same tour, IIRC.

Was the Bernstein Mahler 5 a radio or television broadcast which was repeated?

[LHC]

Don't I remember reading a BBC Press release a few years ago saying that it was the BBC's intention to make its archive available to all? Since then the silence has been deafening. How's it going, Auntie, any news?

I suspect that the BBC would argue that its making various complete 'box sets', such as 'One Foot in the Grave', 'Keeping Up Appearances' and 'Peaky Blinders' available on IPlayer, and renting out other programmes on BritBox is doing just that. There is also this site, which shows mostly very short archive clips:

https://bbcrewind.co.uk/

Predictably, the BBC's archive of classical music programmes doesn't really feature. This may be because of the rights issues noted by others, or because no-one at the BBC thinks this is either interesting or popular enough to repay the effort required to make it available.

However, this is all rather off topic, so I should say I am looking forward to watching tonight's relay on BBC FOUR.

[Maclintick]

Was the Bernstein Mahler 5 a radio or television broadcast which was repeated?

I don't remember it ever being televised, or cameras present in the RAH. BTW, I was wrong about the DG release, which was from the Alte Oper, Frankfurt, not Lucerne.

[Nick Armstrong]

I don't remember it ever being televised, or cameras present in the RAH.

There were definitely no cameras - I was there that night too, in the arena. Thankfully, the radio recording was rebroadcast a year or two back in a series of archive proms (during lockdown maybe? *).

*Your #108 & Heldenleben’s #95 confirm!

.

[symphony1010]

I believe that the Mahler 5/ Bernstein was discussed here as a result of my upload here https://youtu.be/ZBaNdjO4Ah0
It was taken from the live broadcast and I recorded it via a NICAM VHS player to avoid losing anything on cassette where a side-break would have been necessary.

[Petrushka]

There were definitely no cameras - I was there that night too, in the arena. Thankfully, the radio recording was rebroadcast a year or two back in a series of archive proms (during lockdown maybe? *).

*Your #108 & Heldenleben’s #95 confirm!

.

I too was there and definitely no TV cameras present, though they were the following night when Claudio Abbado conducted the VPO in Beethoven 9. Now that's one I'd like to see again!

The Bernstein Mahler 5 WAS repeated, on a Saturday afternoon or something silly if I remember correctly, and I'll try and find it on the BBC Genome and edit it in here.

EDIT: And here it is: Saturday, February 13 1988 https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/fc2aaf6f...a4d273214770da

[Nick Armstrong]

Instead of showing these collections of perfunctory clips, I would much rather the BBC occasionally showed some of the complete performances they have in their archives.

I had the same thought watching a “Ten Best Elgar” programme (recorded a few weeks ago while I was abroad). Why the tantalising bleeding chunks? Put on Colin Davis conducting Elgar 2 in full, for crying out loud … or Janet Baker doing Sea Pictures. You’d have thought the BBC would have been proud of such jewels… but no, let’s pad the schedules with multiple Top of the Pops repeats

I wonder if the fact that BBC Four is soon to disappear from the airwaves having been relegated to online/Sounds only makes the inclusion of classical archive more or less likely…?

[Serial_Apologist]

I had the same thought watching a “Ten Best Elgar” programme (recorded a few weeks ago while I was abroad). Why the tantalising bleeding chunks? Put on Colin Davis conducting Elgar 2 in full, for crying out loud … or Janet Baker doing Sea Pictures. You’d have thought the BBC would have been proud of such jewels… but no, let’s pad the schedules with multiple Top of the Pops repeats

I wonder if the fact that BBC Four is soon to disappear from the airwaves having been relegated to online/Sounds only makes the inclusion of classical archive more or less likely…?

Well... apart from Janet Baker doing Sea Pictures... !!!!!

Anyone hear anything of MrGG these days, by the way?

[Bryn]

Well... apart from Janet Baker doing Sea Pictures... !!!!!

Anyone hear anything of MrGG these days, by the way?

Occasionally, via FB. He's been working with Simon Limbrick quite a lot of late.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I believe that the Mahler 5/ Bernstein was discussed here as a result of my upload here https://youtu.be/ZBaNdjO4Ah0
It was taken from the live broadcast and I recorded it via a NICAM VHS player to avoid losing anything on cassette where a side-break would have been necessary.

Thanks for putting that up - how it came to my notice. Not sure I clocked the BBC re-broadcast, I'll have to see if I committed it to a stored file.........

[Nick Armstrong]

I haven't yet had time to listen to this performance but I guess I might have made time if I were more enthusiastic about Rattle's conducting in general. He is obviously a sympathetic character, and, on the basis of concerts I've attended, he has a flawless conducting technique and the ability to get exactly what he wants out of the players he's working with. And yet... for me there is always something indefinable that's missing. When it comes to Mahler, we're made aware, with (to name conductors whose Mahler recordings I know best and/or have listened to most recently) Gielen, Kubelík, Boulez, Bernstein, Roth, Walter, or Norrington, what and how that conductor thinks about the music. I'm not sure I hear such a thing in Rattle's interpretations. Some people might see that as a positive point, and I would be the first to insist on interpretations that put the music first, so to speak, rather than the performer's personality, but that isn't quite the issue. I might have something a bit more meaningful to say when I've had a chance to listen...

This was all meaningful to me, Richard - it echoes my own reactions pretty precisely.

I’ve often been struck by the contrast between my own reactions to Sir S (as an occasional consumer of his recordings, and a less frequent attendee at live performances) and the reactions to him of friends who as singers have performed repeatedly under his direction. They cannot speak highly-enough about him (and they are each capable of great cynicism about conductors!). Notably, they all say that there is an electricity about concerts with him as he always makes inspirational changes between live performances, trying new things out etc.

[Prommer]

Many thanks, all, re the LB Mahler 5.