Prom 35: Yuja Wang with the Oslo Philharmonic and Klaus Mäkelä 12.08.22)

[Lordgeous]

I watched this (Wang/Makala) Prom on television. I have quite liked Clive Myrie as a Proms presenter previously, but some producer had driven him to go into a TS-like hyper mode, including a paean to the triangle in the Liszt, which when it appeared, could not be heard through the tv sound. I swiftly silenced all the interventions from him and his two guests.

A terrible dumbing-down gremlin is at work around BBC Classical Music broadcasting. (I do hope Susie Klein is not behind any of it on BBC4.)

You took the words right out of my Word-Processor! I thought maybe my HF hearing had gone when I couldn't hear the triangle! And Mirie.... Infuriating! Like all the other Proms presenters: PLEASE let us enjoy the audience appreciation before blasting in with comments that we don't want to hear anyway. Its TV for God's sake! We don't need to have described what we can see!. And the vision directors keep cutting to long shots of the stage, or the audience when we only want to see Orchestra, Conductor or Soloist! I think this is the worst directed Prom TV season EVER!

[kernelbogey]

And the vision directors keep cutting to long shots of the stage, or the audience when we only want to see Orchestra, Conductor or Soloist! I think this is the worst directed Prom TV season EVER!

i quite agree - very indifferent direction of the visuals during the music.

[King_Ouf_I]

I thought maybe my HF hearing had gone when I couldn't hear the triangle!

I didn’t get to the hall for the Oslo Prom, but was also annoyed not to hear the triangle when watching the telecast (and I have a decent sound system, not relying on my TV speakers). I had a similar problem with the Ukrainian Freedom Orchestra Brahms 4, but that was from an almost adjacent to the stage side stalls seat! I watched the TV recording on iPlayer and it was no better. However, this poses an interesting question: if for whatever reason an instrument is inaudible in the hall, should the broadcast sound engineer make any attempt to compensate through mic placement and the mixing desk? It seems to me that they’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t, and meanwhile those responsible for the problem get away scot free.

[edashtav]

Makela /Yang concert goes down a treat.

Prom 35: Oslo Philharmonic/Mäkelä review – breathtaking Yuja Wang reveals new depths to Liszt


From Tim Ashley:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/aug/14/prom-35-review-oslo-philharmonic-klaus-makela-yuja-wang-liszt?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Pulcinella]

Five stars from The Times, too:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/oslo-philharmonic-makela-review-young-conductor-lives-up-to-the-hype-in-spellbinding-proms-debut-h9dp2xf3w?shareToken=af2faef79168a5cc0c1bc8dc71f7f1c0

[Ein Heldenleben]

You took the words right out of my Word-Processor! I thought maybe my HF hearing had gone when I couldn't hear the triangle! And Mirie.... Infuriating! Like all the other Proms presenters: PLEASE let us enjoy the audience appreciation before blasting in with comments that we don't want to hear anyway. Its TV for God's sake! We don't need to have described what we can see!. And the vision directors keep cutting to long shots of the stage, or the audience when we only want to see Orchestra, Conductor or Soloist! I think this is the worst directed Prom TV season EVER!

Intrigued by all the comments I had a look at the Liszt on iPlayer. It’s Sod’s law that when you make a big thing about something in the build up it then doesn’t quite go right live. The triangle definitely had a spot mic - it’s visible in one long shot over the piano. It’s quite a way away but def there and would have no problem , unless it failed , picking up the triangle sound . The triangle is quite audible sometimes , sometimes a bit faint which leads me to to conclude that it was an artistic decision to play it that quietly at the opening of the third movement. It’s not for the sound balancer to override that.
(PS - on Radio 3 the triangle is just as difficult to hear - though it sometimes pings through . I think the triangle player was just being too subtle )
Despite some of the negative comments I thought this was really well directed. I see from the credits it was directed by Rhodri Huw a hugely experienced director who worked for BBC Wales - and is now ,no doubt, a freelance - hopefully getting a lot of work.
Live music direction is just about the most demanding there is - every shot has to be meticulously preplanned. Luckily there is the score to work as a guide so in addition to PA listing the camera shots , there’s a director calling the shot , and a bar counter audibly counting the bars. How they do it without it all collapsing like a pack of cards god alone knows.
I thought the longer lens “chase cameras” perfectly focusing in on one player from thirty yards away did a superb job - it sounds easy but it really isn’t as they are constantly reframing shots. I should add I’ve never worked in this area so a) I may be wrong b) I’m not saying this ‘cos they are ex- mates.
One thing though - I’m not sure wearing such a skimpy outfit is a good idea for a pianist. Female TV presenters were always told not to do off the shoulder as , because of the way the brain infers the whole from the part , bare shoulders in close up create a false impression.

[Lordgeous]

I know it must be an extremely taxing job and acknowlege the technical difficulties but I stand by my earlier remarks regarding this broadcast. I have been a BBC sound producer and occasionally been on the fringes of TV broasdcasting, and I'm aware of the many difficulties but my criticism here was mainly about poor selection of shots. The Beeb seems to be in love with a new fave: the panning shot along the pillars of the upper balcony; for God's sake!!! One last comment: that has to be the worst costume miss Wang has ever worn - unflattering and unsexy!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I know it must be an extremely taxing job and acknowlege the technical difficulties but I stand by my earlier remarks regarding this broadcast. I have been a BBC sound propducer and occasionally been on the fringes of TV broasdcasting, and I'm aware of the many difficulties but my criticism here was mainly about poor selection of shots. The Beeb seems to be in love with a new fave: the panning shot along the pillars of the upper balcony; for God's sake!!! One last comment: that has to be the worst costume miss Wang has ever worn - unflattering and unsexy!

Well there you go. Chacun a son shot selection I guess . I thought it was well directed but yes maybe there were two or three too many wides. Sometimes those are there as a safety while looming disasters are sorted out. I think they should only be used at the beginning and end and at the climax of large choral / orchestral works - but it’s all taste really. Yes the through the pillar shot is irritating. I remember one BBC governor no less criticising proms coverage for constantly cutting to the instrument playing!
The irony is that for all the director and crew’s efforts all that many will remember is the inaudible triangle and Yuja Wang’s legs.

Ps where do you stand on the inaudible triangle ? It has to be the player surely ? You can bet that the sound mixer had a big red sticker on that fader.There’s only so much gain you can put in. It’s marked pp in the score…

[Lordgeous]

Well there you go. Chacun a son shot selection I guess . I thought it was well directed but yes maybe there were two or three too many wides. Sometimes those are there as a safety while looming disasters are sorted out. I think they should only be used at the beginning and end and at the climax of large choral / orchestral works - but it’s all taste really. Yes the through the pillar shot is irritating. I remember one BBC governor no less criticising proms coverage for constantly cutting to the instrument playing!
The irony is that for all the director and crew’s efforts all that many will remember is the inaudible triangle and Yuja Wang’s legs.

Excellently put!

[Joseph K]

I heard the triangle and liked Yuja's raiment.

[LHC]

If its any help to the 'inaudible triangle' debate, it was no more audible during the live performance from where I was sitting in the hall, so it seems it was very much the choice of conductor and player not to overemphasise a part that is, as EH has noted, marked pp in the score.

Part of the problem may be the result of the producer and researcher deciding to make such a big thing of it in the TV presentation, to the extent of including a specific mention of it in Clive Myrie's idiots guide style introduction, and asking one of the guests to try and play it badly in the box before the performance, only for the conductor and player to follow the score's markings instead of the producer's bright idea.

[silvestrione]

I thought maybe my HF hearing had gone when I couldn't hear the triangle! And Mirie.... !

I am so pleased to find others could not hear it...I also assumed it was my hearing. Didn't Yuja say she'd asked for it to be louder? Not granted, for whatever reason....

In the Argerich prom performance of it Barenboim had the triangle player out the front by the piano!

[Ein Heldenleben]

If its any help to the 'inaudible triangle' debate, it was no more audible during the live performance from where I was sitting in the hall, so it seems it was very much the choice of conductor and player not to overemphasise a part that is, as EH has noted, marked pp in the score.

Part of the problem may be the result of the producer and researcher deciding to make such a big thing of it in the TV presentation, to the extent of including a specific mention of it in Clive Myrie's idiots guide style introduction, and asking one of the guests to try and play it badly in the box before the performance, only for the conductor and player to follow the score's markings instead of the producer's bright idea.

Thanks v much for the in-house report which confirms my thoughts. It strikes me that Barenboim as per Silverstrone’s post had a very good idea bringing the triangle player to the front. He’d obviously realised a pp triangle might well be difficult to hear.

[HighlandDougie]

I heard the triangle and liked Yuja's raiment.

Finally getting round to listening to a CD-quality recording, I also have no problem with the triangle. Alas, no video so can't comment on the shorts. Great performance of what I sometimes think of as pianistic trash, although I do much like it. YW's Strauss Burlesque in the Nelsons Strauss box is a delight, btw.

[symphony1010]

I freely admit that I haven't checked out many Proms this year but I have now listened to this one on both the BBC Sounds R3 feed and the BBC4 recording. I found the whole presentation very strange and deeply unsatisfying. It starts with the players being too closely miked so that one isn't aware of any space around the players. Ultimately a whole set of individual instruments with little sense of the overall acoustic. There is an interesting phenomenon that arises out of this which I will do my best to describe! It is about the players performing to the acoustic they are presented with which is a generous one in the RAH. The engineers then present the acoustic as relatively dead which gives me a very peculiar sensation. I found the whole thing very hard to absorb.

When we come to the musicians themselves they are obviously in the first rank but I thought the Strauss was rushed and the players were just not given the space to make beautiful phrases. If you check out Karajan from all those years ago and witness the space and sonority we are in a different world! Wang is phenomenal but she is not Horowitz and has neither the sound or phrasing to really make the Carmen variations work as he did. The Liszt was interesting but her usual accuracy was challenged at the reprise of the opening octaves as by then the tempo was even faster than she could manage. She sees the work as somewhat superficial which it probably is but go back and listen to Richter and you will believe this has a lot more going for it when accorded the right degree of seriousness. As you will probably guess by now I couldn't bear the presentational style of the concert but I am prepared to acknowledge that everything has changed now. We are in a different era with regard to performance styles and recording techniques. As some kind of reference here is the LSO in the Strauss with Jansons from 1990 - see what you think! https://youtu.be/ZkZPUX4dN3M