Prom 19: Puccini’s Il tabarro (30.07.22)

[gurnemanz]

I agree about the complete lack of insights from Petroc's two guests - we almost switched over until the music began. These days guests who can contribute insights play second fiddle to those who can contribute to BBC inclusiveness quotas.

So do I, but we did have the erudite and eloquent Dr Leah Broad the other day for Vaughan Williams/Manze.

She did a detailed and enlightening retrospective on women composers at the Proms here

[Prommer]

I agree about the complete lack of insights from Petroc's two guests - we almost switched over until the music began. These days guests who can contribute insights play second fiddle to those who can contribute to BBC inclusiveness quotas.

Dreadful commentators, I agree - know nothings. Looked up Wiki beforehand...

[ucanseetheend]

Dreadful commentators, I agree - know nothings. Looked up Wiki beforehand...

Of course the BBc with its BAME infatuation . And Elder ..well all that hand flapping always nauseating. Use the baton or doesnt he know how?

[Master Jacques]

It was a beautiful piece of conducting from Elder, for me. "In the moment", open to encouraging exquisite detail from the players, but with an ear to moving the drama on. As Stokowski - another famous non-baton user - once said, "why use one finger, when you've got ten?"

If it works for Sir Mark (and it does) who are we to knock it?

[jonfan]

It was a beautiful piece of conducting from Elder, for me. "In the moment", open to encouraging exquisite detail from the players, but with an ear to moving the drama on. As Stokowski - another famous non-baton user - once said, "why use one finger, when you've got ten?"

If it works for Sir Mark (and it does) who are we to knock it?

Agree.

[seabright]

I haven't checked back but has there been any discussion about the TV sound in here? ... Maybe it was isolated but I thought the sound in the John Wilson Prom seemed awfully thin and low level, as well as in the Elder Prom. For example, in the "Fountains of Rome" there's an organ part, yet though we had shots of the organist on the screen, what he was playing was barely audible. It was all very low level yet when Petroc came in with his closing announcements, his voice was several decibels louder than the playing of the entire Halle Orchestra had been, even at its loudest. It can't be my TV because the sound is just fine on other channels and on other programmes. Apologies if this has already been discussed, or alternatively if it hasn't bothered any other TV viewer! ... Oh, and I agree about those nonentities dragged into the interval break. I suppose there has to be something to occupy the time but pointless waffle doesn't seem to be a very good filler.

[Master Jacques]

I haven't checked back but has there been any discussion about the TV sound in here? ... Maybe it was isolated but I thought the sound in the John Wilson Prom seemed awfully thin and low level, as well as in the Elder Prom. For example, in the "Fountains of Rome" there's an organ part, yet though we had shots of the organist on the screen, what he was playing was barely audible. It was all very low level yet when Petroc came in with his closing announcements, his voice was several decibels louder than the playing of the entire Halle Orchestra had been, even at its loudest.

I had similar thoughts on watching Tintagel from the John Wilson Prom, and know better than to blame the conductor, who always has a scrupulous ear for balance. But then, checking the radio relay, the sound was just as bad: "thin and low level" is right, with the strings totally submerged under the brass in the opening paragraph. I worry that the engineers - doubtless understaffed and underfunded - are cutting corners, with audible results.

As for Fountains of Rome, the organ was mightily audible in the hall, but as a floor-shaking thunderous rumble rather than for anything more detailed - something notoriously difficult to accommodate in most common-or-garden radio relays. More worrying in the hall were the obtrusive TV cameras, forever gliding around like so many predatory pythons.

As for the "nonentity waffle", I'm afraid that's the time we live in. Vox Pop rules the airwaves, and innocent, emotional reaction is more "authentic" than expert information. Quite what BBC think they're achieving with such "celebratory" space-filling is another question.

[LHC]

I had similar thoughts on watching Tintagel from the John Wilson Prom, and know better than to blame the conductor, who always has a scrupulous ear for balance. But then, checking the radio relay, the sound was just as bad: "thin and low level" is right, with the strings totally submerged under the brass in the opening paragraph. I worry that the engineers - doubtless understaffed and underfunded - are cutting corners, with audible results.

As for Fountains of Rome, the organ was mightily audible in the hall, but as a floor-shaking thunderous rumble rather than for anything more detailed - something notoriously difficult to accommodate in most common-or-garden radio relays. More worrying in the hall were the obtrusive TV cameras, forever gliding around like so many predatory pythons.

As for the "nonentity waffle", I'm afraid that's the time we live in. Vox Pop rules the airwaves, and innocent, emotional reaction is more "authentic" than expert information. Quite what BBC think they're achieving with such "celebratory" space-filling is another question.

I’ve noticed that the sound Proms concerts on BBC FOUR is relayed at a much lower level than other programmes. I suspect that the level is set during the rehearsal for the loudest moments, with the presenters microphones set at a similar level. This leaves most of the concert set at far too low a level, with the added anomaly that the presenters’ hurried and unwelcome interjections at the end of the concert coming across as too loud.

I usually have the sound playing on my HiFi, and have to turn the volume up considerably to achieve a reasonable level for Proms concert. I have also learnt to have the volume control close at hand so that I can turn it down as soon as the talking starts again.

With the volume turned up, the organ came through fine for me.

[Master Jacques]

To (sort of) answer my own question, Norman Lebrecht at least supplies a generalised answer, though how accurate his information is, I wouldn't care to guess:

https://slippedisc.com/2022/07/box-office-leak-3-in-4-tickets-to-the-bbc-proms-are-going-unsold/

[edashtav]

Look forward to hearing it after that recommendation, EH. I had to stop listening before Il Tabarro began, so some catch-up to do. But I thought the opener, l'apprenti sorcier, was somewhat wooden. I got no impression of a nifty naughty gamin, just a somewhat pedestrian reading with almost too much detail to the fore. (I'm usually a great admirer of Mark Elder.)

I agree 100% with your assessment of the Dukas. However, the interpretation and playing in the ‘Fountains of Rome’ were splendid - idoubt that I’ve heard better! I was interrupted just before ‘Il Tabarro’ started - a pity.

[cloughie]

I agree 100% with your assessment of the Dukas. However, the interpretation and playing in the ‘Fountains of Rome’ were splendid - idoubt that I’ve heard better! I was interrupted just before ‘Il Tabarro’ started - a pity.

I agree with you about Fountains but quite enjoyed the less frenetic Sorc App - but generally I avoid it along with Bolero.