Prom 10: Music for Royal Occasions (22.07.22)

[RichardB]

These days it seems a lot of my R3 listening takes place when I happen to be in the UK and driving around. So I was looking forward to hearing what was on yesterday evening during three hours on the M4. Imagine then my disappointment when the programme consisted of a seemingly endless string of unappealing pieces unified by a general tone of forelock-tugging, topped off by an astonishingly anachronistic and threadbare "contemporary" contribution, after which even an Elgar march was something resembling a relief. So this is the Proms in 2022, when a composer in her early forties is able and willing to fit her work into a programme of "music for royal occasions" as if the second half of the twentieth century never happened. A concert for the Britain of Brexit and "Boris".

[Ein Heldenleben]

These days it seems a lot of my R3 listening takes place when I happen to be in the UK and driving around. So I was looking forward to hearing what was on yesterday evening during three hours on the M4. Imagine then my disappointment when the programme consisted of a seemingly endless string of unappealing pieces unified by a general tone of forelock-tugging, topped off by an astonishingly anachronistic and threadbare "contemporary" contribution, after which even an Elgar march was something resembling a relief. So this is the Proms in 2022, when a composer in her early forties is able and willing to fit her work into a programme of "music for royal occasions" as if the second half of the twentieth century never happened. A concert for the Britain of Brexit and "Boris".

Sometimes you just have to take a buck when it’s on offer? . I listened to the Weir piece with innocent ears and thought is was written 50 years ago. Then I remembered Tippett’s fourth the other night was more or less 50 years ago and rapidly recalibrated.

[jonfan]

The BBC S, being superb professionals, respond to whoever conducts them. On the latest BBC Music Mag cd is superb choral singing of ‘Lamentations’, Tudor to the present day, conducted by Peter Philips. It’s worthy to compare with specialist choral groups such as the Sixteen or Tenebrae. Barry Wordsworth was not the right choice for this prom. Someone like David Hill, who made superb cds of this kind of repertoire from Winchester Cathedral, or Harry Christophers; conductors steeped in the professional choral tradition plus adept with the big orchestral numbers.

[Ein Heldenleben]

The BBC S, being superb professionals, respond to whoever conducts them. On the latest BBC Music Mag cd is superb choral singing of ‘Lamentations’, Tudor to the present day, conducted by Peter Philips. It’s worthy to compare with specialist choral groups such as the Sixteen or Tenebrae. Barry Wordsworth was not the right choice for this prom. Someone like David Hill, who made superb cds of this kind of repertoire from Winchester Cathedral, or Harry Christophers; conductors steeped in the professional choral tradition plus adept with the big orchestral numbers.

I wonder if singing in the vast spaces of the Albert Hall against an orchestra rather than an organ makes excessive vibrato inevitable unless you are a really exceptionally well trained singer? Isn’t it also just a by product of ageing? Both Bryn Terfel and John Tomlinson have developed a bigger vibrato . In the case of the latter markedly so. Equally I can think of others who’ve managed to hold it at bay . As an opera goer you develop quite a high tolerance but last night was a pitch too far….

[jonfan]

I wonder if singing in the vast spaces of the Albert Hall against an orchestra rather than an organ makes excessive vibrato inevitable unless you are a really exceptionally well trained singer? Isn’t it also just a by product of ageing? Both Bryn Terfel and John Tomlinson have developed a bigger vibrato . In the case of the latter markedly so. Equally I can think of others who’ve managed to hold it at bay . As an opera goer you develop quite a high tolerance but last night was a pitch too far….

You may be right re vibrato and age. It will be interesting to see the age range on the tv tomorrow. I would strongly urge sampling the cd I mentioned to sample the more straight singing needed for smaller scale church music, but with the complexities and challenges of polyphony.

[Ein Heldenleben]

You may be right re vibrato and age. It will be interesting to see the age range on the tv tomorrow. I would strongly urge sampling the cd I mentioned to sample the more straight singing needed for smaller scale church music, but with the complexities and challenges of polyphony.

Yes will do. I’ve heard them quite a lot recently in smaller scale works and there was indeed much less vibrato. I suppose I Was Glad is not Renaissance polyphony and therefore vibrato is not necessarily inappropriate. Equally I remember seeing Pavarotti singing in Church with his father (both trained in Italian Church choirs ) and there was nothing wrong with their singing at all!

[edashtav]

These days it seems a lot of my R3 listening takes place when I happen to be in the UK and driving around. So I was looking forward to hearing what was on yesterday evening during three hours on the M4. Imagine then my disappointment when the programme consisted of a seemingly endless string of unappealing pieces unified by a general tone of forelock-tugging, topped off by an astonishingly anachronistic and threadbare "contemporary" contribution, after which even an Elgar march was something resembling a relief. So this is the Proms in 2022, when a composer in her early forties is able and willing to fit her work into a programme of "music for royal occasions" as if the second half of the twentieth century never happened. A concert for the Britain of Brexit and "Boris".

A dreadful, dreary, dispiriting Concert.

[oddoneout]

Yes will do. I’ve heard them quite a lot recently in smaller scale works and there was indeed much less vibrato. I suppose I Was Glad is not Renaissance polyphony and therefore vibrato is not necessarily inappropriate. Equally I remember seeing Pavarotti singing in Church with his father (both trained in Italian Church choirs ) and there was nothing wrong with their singing at all!

No, but that doesn't mean that excessive vibrato is appropriate either. If it was the result of imbalance of vocal/orchestral forces then shouldn't that have been thought about and dealt with - beefing up the voices or rethinking the instrumental forces. I still find it hard to believe that if conductors heard what we hear on such occasions they would consider it acceptable. Especially when they demonstrably can, and do, do so much better.

[Maclintick]

No, but that doesn't mean that excessive vibrato is appropriate either. If it was the result of imbalance of vocal/orchestral forces then shouldn't that have been thought about and dealt with - beefing up the voices or rethinking the instrumental forces. I still find it hard to believe that if conductors heard what we hear on such occasions they would consider it acceptable. Especially when they demonstrably can, and do, do so much better.

I don't know how many on the Forum heard the broadcast, but the announcer said at the outset and again during the concluding announcement that the concert was dedicated to the memory of the BBC Concert Orchestra's recently-deceased chief conductor Bramwell Tovey, who was booked to be in charge last night. He died a mere 11 days ago, one day after his 69th birthday -- a sad loss of a versatile and talented musician at a comparatively young age, and one which the orchestra will have felt acutely. I don't know the exact timescale within which Barry Wordsworth was asked to step into the breach, but it's conceivable he had to re-arrange the diary & prepare a stylistically eclectic (putting it kindly !) mélange of a programme. including a new commission, in short order. I imagine the musical forces available will have been agreed by Bramwell Tovey & booked months in advance, so little opportunity for re-jigging in the case of the Parry, for instance.

[jonfan]

A dreadful, dreary, dispiriting Concert.

I disagree with three of the words you used Ed. I’ve watched this on TV and I enjoyed it all in a ‘Friday Night is Music Night’ kind of way. There was more time given between pieces for explanation, allowed by the fact it wasn’t live. Plenty of variety mixed with the familiar and the less so. Some vibrato from the Singers in ‘I was glad’ and ‘Zadok’ can be forgiven with the heart stopping control in ‘Silence and Music’ plus the appropriately moving new work from Frances-Hoad, using words of the Queen. A great idea.
What a brilliant group in the BBC Concert O! They could imitate crumhorns in the Henry VIII piece and then give all the works in the fully scored Walton. What guilty pleasure in enjoying the lushness of Harty’s Handel again, surely crowned by the section for muted horns.

[silvestrione]

I disagree with three of the words you used Ed. I’ve watched this on TV and I enjoyed it all in a ‘Friday Night is Music Night’ kind of way. There was more time given between pieces for explanation, allowed by the fact it wasn’t live. Plenty of variety mixed with the familiar and the less so. Some vibrato from the Singers in ‘I was glad’ and ‘Zadok’ can be forgiven with the heart stopping control in ‘Silence and Music’ plus the appropriately moving new work from Frances-Hoad, using words of the Queen. A great idea.
What a brilliant group in the BBC Concert O! They could imitate crumhorns in the Henry VIII piece and then give all the works in the fully scored Walton. What guilty pleasure in enjoying the lushness of Harty’s Handel again, surely crowned by the section for muted horns.

I agree, I enjoyed it mightily, much to my surprise. Nothing to do with 'Boris and Brexit', everything to do with the Queen and the royals and music, and David Owen Norris spoke well in the interval about the the crucial role that royal courts have played in European music.

[Sir Velo]

*Wouldn't Andrew Davies have been more at home with the repertoire?

Who he? What would the screenplayer writer have conceivably brought that a professional conductor couldn't?

Or do we mean Davis?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I agree, I enjoyed it mightily, much to my surprise. Nothing to do with 'Boris and Brexit', everything to do with the Queen and the royals and music, and David Owen Norris spoke well in the interval about the the crucial role that royal courts have played in European music.

Yes I’m listening again now and enjoying it. Britten’s Gloriana suite (from the opera ) is by a mile the best music.*The opera for once interrogates Royalty - its essential melancholy, apartness and ruthlessness. No wonder it went down like the proverbial….

(*With the possible exception of Zadok)

[hmvman]

I've just watched the TV broadcast via iPlayer and I enjoyed it too. I'm neither a Brexiteer, a supporter of the odious Johnson nor even much of a royalist but I enjoy ceremonial music and this eclectic mix was just right for some Saturday night entertaining listening. I thought the BBC Singers sounded good and the 'wobble' seemed to settle down soon after the start; Silence and Music sounded beautiful to my ears. I also enjoyed the new piece and will give it another listen.

The TV presentation, as expected, was lightweight and pretty uninformative. I was surprised, though, that in the discussion about Handel's Water Music they didn't mention that it was the Harty arrangement and thus a very different sound to the one Handel expected to hear on the Thames. Like jonfan I also find guilty pleasure in the Harty arrangement and it takes me back to my primary school days when it was a favourite of my headmaster who played it from 78s, this being the mid-1960s!