Prom 6: Vaughan Williams and Tippett – Full Fourths (19.07.22)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:00 Tuesday 19 July 2022
Royal Albert Hall

Ralph Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 4 in F minor
Michael Tippett: Symphony No. 4

BBC Philharmonic
Omer Meir Wellber conductor

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This seems rather like the tiresome Essential Classics playlist game. Far from being intelligent programming, it pairs two symphonies that happen to share a particular number. That said, both are fine individual works. I got know the Tippett when the symphony's coupling was an O-level set work I happened to be teaching (Suite for the Birthday of Prince Charles).

[Pulcinella]

This seems rather like the tiresome Essential Classics playlist game. Far from being intelligent programming, it pairs two symphonies that happen to share a particular number. That said, both are fine individual works. I got know the Tippett when the symphony's coupling was an O-level set work I happened to be teaching (Suite for the Birthday of Prince Charles).

The symphony's long-awaited first recording, in fact.

https://www.discogs.com/master/482554-Sir-Michael-Tippett-Sir-Georg-Solti-Chicago-Symphony-Orchestra-Symphony-No4-Suite-For-The-Birthday-O

A slightly annoying and at the time I thought rather uninspired (and poor value) coupling, much as I like the work, as I already had the LSO/Colin Davis version (of the Suite).
Even more annoying was the fact that when Byzantium was finally released, it was coupled with......that recording of the fourth symphony!

https://www.discogs.com/release/11209387-Tippett-Solti-Faye-Robinson-Chicago-Symphony-Orchestra-Byzantium-Symphony-No-4

[CallMePaul]

19:00 Tuesday 19 July 2022
Royal Albert Hall

Ralph Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 4 in F minor
Michael Tippett: Symphony No. 4

BBC Philharmonic
Omer Meir Wellber conductor

I assume that this information comes from the official Proms website, but readers need to be aware that the Albert Hall website lists this prom as by the BBC Symphony conducted by Sir Andrew Davis!

[Pulcinella]

I assume that this information comes from the official Proms website, but readers need to be aware that the Albert Hall website lists this prom as by the BBC Symphony conducted by Sir Andrew Davis!

The Radio 3 schedule page says BBC Philharmonic and Andrew Davis.

(PS: So does the RAH site, now I've checked, so possibly a typo by CMP!)

[Andrew Slater]

Yes, it's one of the changes I picked up here when I updated the single-page listing, last week. (Both of Omer Meir Wellber's Proms have replacement conductors; the other is Prom 5). I see also that Prom 10 now has a change of conductor owing to the sad demise of the BBCCO's chief conductor, as noted in another thread.

Edit: I've just looked at the BBCPO website and note that Omer Meir Wellber no longer appears in the list of conductors; in fact no chief conductor is listed. The principal guest conductor (who I think was Ben Gernon) has also disappeared from the list. (There used to be both a chief guest conductor and a principal guest conductor.) Have I missed something?

[Boilk]

This seems rather like the tiresome Essential Classics playlist game. Far from being intelligent programming, it pairs two symphonies that happen to share a particular number. That said, both are fine individual works. I got know the Tippett when the symphony's coupling was an O-level set work I happened to be teaching (Suite for the Birthday of Prince Charles).

Or maybe it's a coincidence - after all the 4th is just 30 mins long, shorter (I think) than 1& 2 and certainly 3, and more like a concerto for orchestra than symphony.

I got know the Tippett when the symphony's coupling was an O-level set work I happened to be teaching (Suite for the Birthday of Prince Charles).

That Fourth coupling (Solti/Chicago SO on Decca) with Suite for the Birthday of Prince Charles has, I think, never been bettered on disc. Most conductors play safe with slower tempi, not Solti.

[cloughie]

Or maybe it's a coincidence - after all the 4th is just 30 mins long, shorter (I think) than 1& 2 and certainly 3, and more like a concerto for orchestra than symphony.


That Fourth coupling (Solti/Chicago SO on Decca) with Suite for the Birthday of Prince Charles has, I think, never been bettered on disc. Most conductors play safe with slower tempi, not Solti.

Sir Georg liked lively tempi - I think that for a long time he had the swiftest Russlan & Ludmilla Ov on record - however he was more challenged when playing piano - I remember a documentary when he was playing Bartok with Murray Perahia and commented it was ‘stupid - its too bloody fast’!

[Petrushka]

Sir Georg liked lively tempi - I think that for a long time he had the swiftest Russlan & Ludmilla Ov on record - however he was more challenged when playing piano - I remember a documentary when he was playing Bartok with Murray Perahia and commented it was ‘stupid - its too bloody fast’!

I attended the 1978 UK/Proms premiere of the Tippett 4 with Solti and the Chicago SO - my third ever Prom - and will never forget it. Tippett also gave a pre-Prom talk which I also went to. I only had a cassette recording of the BBC broadcast of the Chicago premiere as preparation but hearing the piece 'in the flesh' as it were was an absolute knockout experience. One of the great Proms.

[Pulcinella]

Sir Georg liked lively tempi - I think that for a long time he had the swiftest Russlan & Ludmilla Ov on record - however he was more challenged when playing piano - I remember a documentary when he was playing Bartok with Murray Perahia and commented it was ‘stupid - its too bloody fast’!

Yes, it's a pretty quick Suite (which is partly what made it seem poor value as a filler), with overall playing time 14'46" compared with Colin Davis' 16'00" (Decca Eloquence) and Tippet's own 18'09" (Nimbus).

[Keraulophone]

Sir Georg liked lively tempi - I think that for a long time he had the swiftest Russlan & Ludmilla Ov on record

Mravinsky conducting his Leningrad PO (Melodiya?) was even faster than LSO/Solti (Decca). One of R.Strauss's rules for conductors was "When you have reached the limits of prestissimo, double the pace." Mravinsky seems to have followed his advice. What incredible playing!

https://youtu.be/jMvOLepoBO8

[Ein Heldenleben]

Tremendous prom this with a superb RVW 4 in the first half. It also has the benefit of an excellent interview feature with composer / academic William Mival on the genesis of Tippett’s Fourth. Shaping up to be the prom of the season (so far)

[Alison]

Just that bit more grip in the conducting compared to John Wilson IMHO. The sometimes ever so slightly bland sounding Philharmonic responding richly to a top notcher.

Sir Andrew’s British Line box is an outstanding bargain at little over £20 if you’ve never considered it. Great engineering on these discs.

And maybe Gramophone did underrate the BBCSO VW recordings.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Just that bit more grip in the conducting compared to John Wilson IMHO. The sometimes ever so slightly bland sounding Philharmonic responding richly to a top notcher.

Sir Andrew’s British Line box is an outstanding bargain at little over £20 if you’ve never considered it. Great engineering on these discs.

And maybe Gramophone did underrate the BBCSO VW recordings.

I’d go further than that Alison. Total grip and focus from the first to last note of the RVW. What a contrast with last nights Bruckner 6 - it sounded like a different string section.
And the brass in the Tippett - wow.
What a difference a conductor makes ( and I never thought I’d say that)
So good I’m now re -listening to the RVW without having to cook at the same time..

[Maclintick]

I’d go further than that Alison. Total grip and focus from the first to last note of the RVW. What a contrast with last nights Bruckner 6 - it sounded like a different string section.
And the brass in the Tippett - wow.
What a difference a conductor makes ( and I never thought I’d say that)
So good I’m now re -listening to the RVW without having to cook at the same time..

100% agreed. Sir Andrew & the BBCPO the real deal tonight. I'm sure he's right to employ a "live" singer to provide the breathing effects in Tippett 4. Originally MT envisaged a synthesised sound, but this hasn't convinced me on the admittedly rare occasions I've heard it done this way. Congratulations to the BBCPO horns, who were magnificent in this hugely challenging & miraculously kaleidoscopic work.