Prom 2: John Wilson conducts the Sinfonia of London (16.07.22)

[gradus]

Wasn't Chineke formed to provide non-white classical musicians with the opportunity to establish a professional career in classical music? Its programme this Summer includes the Proms, the Snape Summer Proms and the Lucerne Festival. Presumably these musicians will eventually move into other orchestras and the process of integrating non-white classical musicians will progress.

[LHC]

But that's what the English Touring Opera are doing, in keeping with the Arts Council advice, and no-one complained - so what's different here?

On the contrary, ETO’s decision not to reemploy 14 freelance musicians was very controversial and lots of people complained. The MU condemned the move, stating "[This] clearly works against creating an inclusive environment for more diverse musicians" and the Arts Council was at pains to distance itself from ETO’s actions, stating ‘We did not instruct the English Touring Opera to send this letter … We are now in conversation with ETO to ensure no funding criteria have been breached’.

[Ein Heldenleben]

But that's what the English Touring Opera are doing, in keeping with the Arts Council advice, and no-one complained - so what's different here?

In point of fact there was a protest and the ETO changed their minds. The Arts council did not
advise them to sack half their freelances

[Prommer]

Mahlerfan is a very naughty boy, with his innocent face questions.

[mahlerfan]

Putting the politics away, back to the music, please.

I must give the second half of the concert another listen. As I said earlier, I thought the Enigma variations was a little lacking in flow and the Walton didn't quite have the 'feel' one gets from, say, Szell's Cleveland performance. Quite surprising since the Thomas Tallis and Tintagel were superlative - the best I've heard in a very long while.

The London Sinfonia and John Wilson have their knockers, David Hurwitz and even some people on this forum are not impressed (they give the exact same reasons that Hurwitz gives). But I really enjoy the last few releases, Respighi, Korngold and especially the Ravel (what a Bolero!) and the French music disc (that Rapsodie Espagnola goes to the top of my list). I can understand that some might not like the 'elitist' feel of a crack pick-up band, but the music is utterly amazing. I can't wait until the second English string disc comes out next year.

[ucanseetheend]

The London Sinfonia and John Wilson have their knockers, David Hurwitz

Hurwitz...now theres an attention seeker for commericial reasons . all to get views on his youtube channel and hits and subscriptions to his website.I guess it works to some degree

[Keraulophone]

If that's the case, how come the London Orchestras end up mainly white when the population of London is now mainly non-white?

Please see figue at top right. Has the ONS published a more accurate estimate based on the 2021 census yet?

You could use the table to form a London Diversity Orchestra...




'How to lie with statisitcs' (1954) by Darrell Huff is still in print.

[Bryn]

Is John Wilson the new Wyn Morris? Even the orchestras they have put together have similar names.

[french frank]

'One' now, not 'we'?

'One' is inclusive of 'we'

But, of course, back to the music …

[Keraulophone]

Is John Wilson the new Wyn Morris? Even the orchestras they have put together have similar names.

'John Wilson conducts the Sinfonia of London in Mahler's Symphonica of a Thousand' - coming soon to the RAH!

[mahlerfan]

Is John Wilson the new Wyn Morris?

Nah, Wyn could have drunk John under the table, any day of the week....

[Keraulophone]

Nah, Wyn could have drunk John under the table, any day of the week....

I think you're right there.

I sometimes get the impression (rightly or wrongly, probably the latter) that John Wilson resembles a gifted amateur* as a conductor, albeit a passionate and very hard-working one, while also a dedicated arranger and resuscitator of lost scores, who is able to call upon the cream of the orchestral crop to make recordings and give occasional concerts. The one I attended at the Proms a few years ago was not nearly as impressive as others of his I've watched on television. The late Hornspieler, sometime past of this parish, had no time for his stick-wagging.

I've listened carefully to several of his recent Sinfonia of London releases, recorded in brilliant Chandos sound, but I'm often left with a feeling of unfulfillment, and not only because one is ineviably recalling much-loved versions from yesteryear, eg Barbirolli in RVW and Elgar with the 'same' orchestra (!), but because a degree of inspiration seems to be missing. These hand-picked pros play almost too well for a conductor who doesn't wish to reveal his emotions, to look beyond the printed notes, or, rather, taint a composer's creation by interpreting the score through his own vision of what the composer might have meant - the complete opposite of someone like Bernstein, one might say. If the conductor has no such instinctive vision and is not prepared to take subjective risks, the results are likely to remain bland, however well played. Apologies to those who admire this conductor - all IMHO of course. There are many positives, not least the reconstruction of many lost Hollywood scores and seeing and hearing someone at the top of their game like Mike Lovatt blazing a solo from the trumpet section of the JWO.

From an interview by Stephen Moss for The Guardian in 2017:
'He puts the range of his repertoire down to his unusual background: working-class boy from Gateshead who fell in love with music (and Hollywood musicals in particular), taught himself to play the piano with the help of a musical mother, did A-level music at Newcastle College and formed his first orchestra at the age of 16. “I had a good school music teacher and a percussion teacher who took me under his wing,” he recalls in an accent that retains its Geordie lilt. “There was a lot of amateur music-making – brass bands, orchestras, choirs and operatic societies doing Gilbert and Sullivan. I cut my teeth doing all of that and loved every minute of it, which is probably why I’ve always been a practical musician.” Wilson went on to the Royal College of Music, joining as what he calls a “reluctant and not very good percussion player” but switched to composition and, later, conducting... I was given the time and encouragement to blossom, and I went from being almost thrown out at the end of my first year to winning the Tagore Gold Medal. They just let me do my thing.”

...and thus began a professional career as a conductor, doing his thing, his way. By now, it's every which way.


* NB: many amateur musicians are more than capable of giving professional-quailty performances.

[richardfinegold]

I think you're right there.

I sometimes get the impression (rightly or wrongly, probably the latter) that John Wilson resembles a gifted amateur* as a conductor, albeit a passionate and very hard-working one, while also a dedicated arranger and resuscitator of lost scores, who is able to call upon the cream of the orchestral crop to make recordings and give occasional concerts. The one I attended at the Proms a few years ago was not nearly as impressive as others of his I've watched on television. The late Hornspieler, sometime past of this parish, had no time for his stick-wagging.

I've listened carefully to several of his recent Sinfonia of London releases, recorded in brilliant Chandos sound, but I'm often left with a feeling of unfulfillment, and not only because one is ineviably recalling much-loved versions from yesteryear, eg Barbirolli in RVW and Elgar with the 'same' orchestra (!), but because a degree of inspiration seems to be missing. These hand-picked pros play almost too well for a conductor who doesn't wish to reveal his emotions, to look beyond the printed notes, or, rather, taint a composer's creation by interpreting the score through his own vision of what the composer might have meant - the complete opposite of someone like Bernstein, one might say. If the conductor has no such instinctive vision and is not prepared to take subjective risks, the results are likely to remain bland, however well played. Apologies to those who admire this conductor - all IMHO of course. There are many positives, not least the reconstruction of many lost Hollywood scores and seeing and hearing someone at the top of their game like Mike Lovatt blazing a solo from the trumpet section of the JWO.

From an interview by Stephen Moss for The Guardian in 2017:
'He puts the range of his repertoire down to his unusual background: working-class boy from Gateshead who fell in love with music (and Hollywood musicals in particular), taught himself to play the piano with the help of a musical mother, did A-level music at Newcastle College and formed his first orchestra at the age of 16. “I had a good school music teacher and a percussion teacher who took me under his wing,” he recalls in an accent that retains its Geordie lilt. “There was a lot of amateur music-making – brass bands, orchestras, choirs and operatic societies doing Gilbert and Sullivan. I cut my teeth doing all of that and loved every minute of it, which is probably why I’ve always been a practical musician.” Wilson went on to the Royal College of Music, joining as what he calls a “reluctant and not very good percussion player” but switched to composition and, later, conducting... I was given the time and encouragement to blossom, and I went from being almost thrown out at the end of my first year to winning the Tagore Gold Medal. They just let me do my thing.”

...and thus began a professional career as a conductor, doing his thing, his way. By now, it's every which way.


* NB: many amateur musicians are more than capable of giving professional-quailty performances.

I find myself concurring with this. He is a great story, but the hype surrounding his recordings just leaves me nonplussed. Perhaps he is thought to be this Generations Simon Rattle, who will be a lodestar for younger audiences in the U.K. Rattle however imo justified the hype. Most of those Birmingham recordings have held up very well. Perhaps Wilson will make an Artistic Leap, and perhaps if he had a permanent position he might develop a rapport that would flourish over time

[Ein Heldenleben]

I find myself concurring with this. He is a great story, but the hype surrounding his recordings just leaves me nonplussed. Perhaps he is thought to be this Generations Simon Rattle, who will be a lodestar for younger audiences in the U.K. Rattle however imo justified the hype. Most of those Birmingham recordings have held up very well. Perhaps Wilson will make an Artistic Leap, and perhaps if he had a permanent position he might develop a rapport that would flourish over time

Interesting that like Rattle he was a percussionist. Though Rattle was a good one. It’s always struck me that the percussion dept is a good place to sit back watch the conductor and pick up a few tips. In the strings I guess you’re too busy playing the music to do much more than occasionally glance at the baton waver.

[Barbirollians]

Interesting that like Rattle he was a percussionist. Though Rattle was a good one. It’s always struck me that the percussion dept is a good place to sit back watch the conductor and pick up a few tips. In the strings I guess you’re too busy playing the music to do much more than occasionally glance at the baton waver.

Maybe so , but great cellist conductors like Barbirolli and I think Toscanini might have disagreed.