Prom 2: John Wilson conducts the Sinfonia of London (16.07.22)

[mahlerfan]

If this orchestra is overwhelmingly white as has been suggested is that not a proper matter for comment ? I have no idea whether it is correct as a statement of fact

Really? No idea? It could be mainly Afro-Caribbean for all you know?

[mahlerfan]

Groan. Agreed. Suprised he hasn't been taken to task for his programme of purely ENGLISH music!

Groan you might, but diversity is an important issue - some think it's the most important issue of our times...

And looking at that superlative list in post #50, I was impressed on the one hand, but horrified on the other.

The Arts Council have given a clear steer and the English Touring Opera have admirably taken steps to address the inequality in their ranks.

Why not the London Sinfonia too? Why can't London's Sinfonia be representative of London's population - is that a bad thing?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Groan you might, but diversity is an important issue - some think it's the most important issue of our times...

Since it’s been mentioned upthread I think the VPO’s historic lack of female players was the result of a discriminatory policy.The SOL’s perceived lack of ethnic diversity ( probably an accurate perception if their publicity stills are accurate) has maybe more to do with access to music education, instrument training and exposure to classical music and not discrimination . I wouldn’t mind betting that a significant proportion of this freelance recording band of “world class musicians “ are the children of orchestral musicians or reasonably well off parents. It’s a topic we’ve discussed endlessly on other threads on the forum. Whatever the cause it’s not John Wilson’s fault. Interestingly his parents weren’t musicians and he gained his expertise through the state system in one of the UK’s poorest regions.

[french frank]

Since it’s been mentioned upthread [...]

And in any case, 'diversity' means just that - not as was also suggested upthread an absence of BAME (I don't think we use that term now) players.

[Serial_Apologist]

And in any case, 'diversity' means just that - not as was also suggested upthread an absence of BAME (I don't think we use that term now) players.

A Welsh place of higher education?

[Barbirollians]

Really? No idea? It could be mainly Afro-Caribbean for all you know?

What is the purpose of this post ? I said I did not know whether your allegation was correct as a statement of fact. I assumed you had a basis for it hence my comment that it is an important issue .

[Lordgeous]

Since it’s been mentioned upthread I think the VPO’s historic lack of female players was the result of a discriminatory policy.The SOL’s perceived lack of ethnic diversity ( probably an accurate perception if their publicity stills are accurate) has maybe more to do with access to music education, instrument training and exposure to classical music and not discrimination . I wouldn’t mind betting that a significant proportion of this freelance recording band of “world class musicians “ are the children of orchestral musicians or reasonably well off parents. It’s a topic we’ve discussed endlessly on other threads on the forum. Whatever the cause it’s not John Wilson’s fault. Interestingly his parents weren’t musicians and he gained his expertise through the state system in one of the UK’s poorest regions.

Well put.

[Prommer]

Never said such. You really are the epitomy of nonsense. The poster of the players of London Sinfonia was referring to lack of diversity and that couldn't be women because the orchestra has many female players so clearly about other 'diversity'. And my recollection of you in the past when you were in a 'minority' on leaving the EU. Sums you up .

What has our leaving the EU to do with it? But we must cherish our minorities, including those who wanted to stay in and wear those funny hats at the Last Night.

I am sure John Wilson himself would like as diverse a band as is consistent with his desire for the highest possible quality.

[Nick Armstrong]

The poster of the players of London Sinfonia was referring to lack of diversity

Nope. I merely called the players “superlative”

[mahlerfan]

And in any case, 'diversity' means just that - not as was also suggested upthread an absence of BAME (I don't think we use that term now) players.

'We' being the government .https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....bout-ethnicity - See Para 4

In Para 2 it seems 'we' have gone back to 'ethnic minorities'

[french frank]

'We' being the government .https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....bout-ethnicity - See Para 4

In Para 2 it seems 'we' have gone back to 'ethnic minorities'

That misses my point on 'diversity' - which now includes women, the disabled, those from disadvantaged backgrounds (touched on by Ein Heldenleben) &c., not just white middleclass males - but not simply including ethnic minorities, whatever you choose to call them. And as an orchestra which can claim national standing with players from other British and international orchestras, why should it even reflect the 'diversity' of London's population as you specify in #62?

[Lordgeous]

Its HIS orchestra. He can run it how he wants. I've never been in the slightest bit racist but as a 77 year old, in the midst of all this, well.......

[mahlerfan]

That misses my point on 'diversity' - which now includes women, the disabled, those from disadvantaged backgrounds (touched on by Ein Heldenleben) &c., not just white middleclass males - but not simply including ethnic minorities, whatever you choose to call them. And as an orchestra which can claim national standing with players from other British and international orchestras, why should it even reflect the 'diversity' of London's population as you specify in #62?

It's 'you' now, not 'we'?

Yes, women are missing in this, and it feels that generally they are losing consideration across much of the political/humanitarian/liberal debate.

If it's the London Sinfonia, it should reflect the diversity of London as per the normal position on this matter with all enterprises. Maybe the orchestra should be renamed.

[richardfinegold]

Well, this thread took an interesting turn.
I will be a stinker here and say that from this side of the pond, I haven't seen what all the fuss is about re Wilson and his pick up Orchestra. I haven't heard them in the works on the concert, nor have I heard the concert yet, but the recordings that I have heard have struck me as generally competent without displacing the two dozen or so favorites ahead of them in whatever piece of standard rep. they happen to be issuing, but in no way justifying the hype that seems to come in splendid isolation from your Isle

[french frank]

It's 'you' now, not 'we'?

'You' as in 'one'. Nothing personal intended!

Yes, women are missing in this, and it feels that generally they are losing consideration across much of the political/humanitarian/liberal debate.

I had not noticed that it was decreasing across the spectrum of 'political/humanitarian/liberal debate'. I'd have thought that was where consideration was strongest?

If it's the London Sinfonia, it should reflect the diversity of London as per the normal position on this matter with all enterprises. Maybe the orchestra should be renamed.

Well, there are many orchestras which take their name from the city in which they're based. I don't think for that reason they should all reflect the population of their own city. If they had any ambition towards excellence, they wouldn't restrict themselves to the local pool of players, surely?