Proms classical?

[ucanseetheend]

So this week 16- 19 August typifies the way the Proms is now. Not a classical music concert all week . It is just a "music festival ". Well some of it I wouldn't call 'music'

[jayne lee wilson]

Difficult term, "classical music" isn't it?

Strictly the era between Baroque and Romantic, though dovetailing in both directions, but in the broader sense.... well, what?
Something broadly symphonic or concertante, chamber or orchestral ensembles, from somewhere in the 17thC to now? But which audibly, perceivably relates back to those forms and sounds of the 18th/19th Centuries?

Two Proms this week - Manchester Collective and tonight's choral sequence devised by Shiva Feshareki, have been some of the most beautiful, exciting and memorable I've heard for a long time, especially coming after those first wonderful two weeks which seemed like a Celebration of the (Classical) Symphony - howsoever you try to define it (with some difficulty, as I've just proved...)...

Anyway, cheer up - you have an extended Rameau sequence, some Chevalier de Saint-Georges and Mozart to immerse yourself in on Friday, and Rattle's Stravinsky Spectacular on Sunday...

[oddoneout]

So this week 16- 19 August typifies the way the Proms is now. Not a classical music concert all week . It is just a "music festival ". Well some of it I wouldn't call 'music'

Apart from (arguably) Wednesday's concert I would have said they were all very much R3 content, and as such "classical" in the popular sense of the word. For me, this year's Proms so far have provided so much more that I have enjoyed, been interested in, wanted to hear, than in recent years.
Since we are still in a time of Covid I feel it's a little premature to judge the direction of travel of future Proms from what has been or is being put on this season.

[kernelbogey]

Difficult term, "classical music" isn't it? Strictly the era between Baroque and Romantic, though dovetailing in both directions, but in the broader sense.... well, what?

But... the term has long been used, colloquially, for music of a particular kind - perhaps one way of defining it: the sort that certain people sit down to, and listen to without doing anything else. And this very broad 'definition' has been blurred by the record companies, and many commercial radio stations. Is Rameau 'classical'? Is Stravinsky? I'd guess a very high proportion of people would say yes to both.

Anyway, cheer up - you have an extended Rameau sequence, some Chevalier de Saint-Georges and Mozart to immerse yourself in on Friday, and Rattle's Stravinsky Spectacular on Sunday...

I am hoping to take my seventeen year old son - 'I don't like classical music' - on a surprise visit to his first ever Prom, and 'classical' event, on Wednesday for the Four/Eight seasons. Rattle and Stravinsky would have been even better, but was logistically impossible. I'm hoping that the road to the RAH might lead to Damascus....

[Barbirollians]

But... the term has long been used, colloquially, for music of a particular kind - perhaps one way of defining it: the sort that certain people sit down to, and listen to without doing anything else. And this very broad 'definition' has been blurred by the record companies, and many commercial radio stations. Is Rameau 'classical'? Is Stravinsky? I'd guess a very high proportion of people would say yes to both.



I am hoping to take my seventeen year old son - 'I don't like classical music' - on a surprise visit to his first ever Prom, and 'classical' event, on Wednesday for the Four/Eight seasons. Rattle and Stravinsky would have been even better, but was logistically impossible. I'm hoping that the road to the RAH might lead to Damascus....

I have rather enjoyed the gap has given me a chance to catch up on concerts missed when I was on holiday last week.

[ucanseetheend]

Wow this thread has been gutted by a moderator! For whatever reason ?

[french frank]

Wow this thread has been gutted by a moderator! For whatever reason ?

I can't see from the log that anything has been changed to this thread at all. One member deleted his own post. Correction: two members deleted their posts, one of whom seems to have been you.

[Serial_Apologist]

[kernelbogey]

Far from being gutted I am over the moon atm.

[gurnemanz]

Not a classical music concert all week .

Except last night's Rameau/Mozart evening and the two mentioned by Jayne above.

[french frank]

Probably more about Ideas and Theory than Proms 2021 but … I would assume that if the Proms continues for another 120 years it will change during its second 120 years (1995-2115) much more radically, much more rapidly, than it did during its first 120. 'Classical music' changed from being music inspired by the principles of … what? the order, symmetry &c of the ancient classical world (particularly in architecture) to gradually include music written later and with quite different inspirations. It seems logical to assume that 'classical music' - if the term continues to be used - will gradually embrace more modern forms.

And as it expands there will be those who 'grieve' that the music they have always treasured becomes 'downgraded' - in the sense that it has to make room for more modern musics. There will always be those who 'grieve' or rage or whatever but the music will go on and they won't.

I listened to the whole of Aetherworld and for me, with my experiences and developed tastes, I couldn't wait for it to end (why am I doing this?). I started listening to the concert from the beginning but gradually the whole concept of the "immersive experience" palled and I turned it off.

A bit sad for me as an individual, but not something of which I would question the universal validity. Mr Rees-Mogg misquoted the aphorism which correctly is: "Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis". 'Nos' surely refers to the human race and how it develops and evolves, not the general adaptability of each individual. We don't need to adapt individually: we won't be around for very long .

[jayne lee wilson]

What a remarkable last sentence.....surely you just have to adapt individually to cope with whatever life throws at you. I wouldn't be around anymore if I hadn't, often quite drastically too. IRL BTW, like becoming a carer and having to be one and learn how to be one, over years.....ordering everything from prescriptions to groceries online...mundane now, an amazing lifesaver back then..

Prime example surely is - technology. I use Computer Audio now as much as any other medium, now but around 10 years ago I was a very reluctant debutante, getting to grips with all kinds of new activities and error-strewn experiences....

Mobile tech is even more pervasive in the lives of many individuals (see the joggers scrutinising their readouts, headphones plugged...), who have had to adapt many times in the course of our limited lifespans just to keep up & to communicate with others.......

The times change and we change with them. You bet, and in the Pandemic era....you learn life-lessons that change you forever...

Change is the only evidence of Life. OK, so you couldn't respond to Aetherworld, but the great thing is - you tried it; you were open to the possibilities... which in a way is "change" enough...

[Ein Heldenleben]

What a remarkable last sentence.....surely you just have to adapt individually to cope with whatever life throws at you. I wouldn't be around anymore if I hadn't, often quite drastically too. IRL BTW, like becoming a carer and having to be one and learn how to be one, over years.....ordering everything from prescriptions to groceries online...mundane now, an amazing lifesaver back then..

Prime example surely is - technology. I use Computer Audio now as much as any other medium, now but around 10 years ago I was a very reluctant debutante, getting to grips with all kinds of new activities and error-strewn experiences....

Mobile tech is even more pervasive in the lives of many individuals (see the joggers scrutinising their readouts, headphones plugged...), who have had to adapt many times in the course of our limited lifespans just to keep up & to communicate with others.......

The times change and we change with them. You bet, and in the Pandemic era....you learn life-lessons that change you forever...

Change is the only evidence of Life. OK, so you couldn't respond to Aetherworld, but the great thing is - you tried it; you were open to the possibilities... which in a way is "change" enough...

On a natural history note dragonflies have barely evolved in 250 million years…homo sapiens has been around maybe 250,000 and we’ll be very very lucky to get another 250,000 ….change isn’t everything.

[french frank]

What a remarkable last sentence.....surely you just have to adapt individually to cope with whatever life throws at you.

I would approach that in a different way. Yes, we have to adapt to changes in our own personal circumstances - for our own good, but the great world outside moves on whether we adapt or not. We are free to stay in our comfort zones if that's what we choose to do.

The fact that I didn't 'adapt' to the immersive experience doesn't matter a jot to anyone else. Fortunately, it didn't really matter a jot to me either (I have other things to do). I wouldn't complain that the Proms are going in a direction which I don't like.

[jayne lee wilson]

On a natural history note dragonflies have barely evolved in 250 million years…homo sapiens has been around maybe 250,000 and we’ll be very very lucky to get another 250,000 ….change isn’t everything.

But today's Dragonflies are much smaller than most of their ancestral groups with many small physical differences, with different colorations of bewilderingly many kinds. Yes, they are very similar in many ways, but I wouldn't say they have "barely evolved"......

Sadly, this is the first summer I haven't seen a single one in the garden here.... something changed somewhere in their local habitat or food supply......