Proms 2021 General topics

[Bryn]

Ouch! That's the kind of comment that's caused better people than me to quit. It's only sheer bloody-mindedness that's prevented me from following their example - until now.

Well, there is always the ignore facility available for when newly registered contributors seek to lord it over others who have been participating here for many years.

[LMcD]

Well, there is always the ignore facility available for when newly registered contributors seek to lord it over others who have been participating here for many years.

Sorry, there's a limit to the number of insults a chap can be expected to accept. I doubt I'll be missed that much.

[teamsaint]

Yes, but.... Philip T got into the RAH showing his 'jab card' - so (and with respect TS) the argument about digital passports seems to me irrelevant here. (And for what it's worth I have chosen not to have the NHS app on my phone: so I'm in sympathy with some of your views on this.)

I also note your later (digital) olive branch.

Fair enough KB. No wish to derail threads on my part, however important the issues.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I have wondered if this board is a fiefdom, or perhaps more than one, wending their way between each other, or in the same threads. Evidently politeness and tolerance wears thin at times, which leads members to leave.

It's a shame, this has been a welcoming and respectful forum, on the whole* - even to lesser mortals like me.

*Apart from some memorably intemperate posts, often made after 11pm, which then had been sent to the deleted bin. How I used, for the only time, the global "ignore” button.

This may also be a factor for the apparently numerous registered members who rarely (if ever) post contributions retired from contributing or choose not to..... The risk is that the board becomes a progressively smaller group who are comfortable talking to each other, until it gets boring. Or they become inactive through force of circumstance - as will happen to all of us, eventually. I've seen it on another board, that goes days between posts, and the occasional question whether it's worth continuing - not least, dependant on a volunteer with the tech skills to deal with the website and software, let alone moderation - yes, let's not forget the time they freely give up to the board to the benefit of members.

[antongould]

I have wondered if this board is a fiefdom, or perhaps more than one, wending their way between each other, or in the same threads. Evidently politeness and tolerance wears thin at times, which leads members to leave.

It's a shame, this has been a welcoming and respectful forum, on the whole* - even to lesser mortals like me.

*Apart from some memorably intemperate posts, often made after 11pm, which then had been sent to the deleted bin. How I used, for the only time, the global "ignore” button.

This may also be a factor for the apparently numerous registered members who rarely (if ever) post contributions retired from contributing or choose not to..... The risk is that the board becomes a progressively smaller group who are comfortable talking to each other, until it gets boring. Or they become inactive through force of circumstance - as will happen to all of us, eventually. I've seen it on another board, that goes days between posts, and the occasional question whether it's worth continuing - not least, dependant on a volunteer with the tech skills to deal with the website and software, let alone moderation - yes, let's not forget the time they freely give up to the board to the benefit of members.

Well said ….. it does seem to me that we are approaching the end of what has been, to me at least, a thing of joy …. Very, very sad IMVVHO

[oddoneout]

Well said ….. it does seem to me that we are approaching the end of what has been, to me at least, a thing of joy …. Very, very sad IMVVHO

I hope that won't happen, not least as I don't have anything comparable to replace it. I do wonder how much the strange times have affected exchanges and reactions and whether, as we can get out into the wider world more and have real and nuanced exchanges of views rather than those affected, sometimes adversely, by being written in limited and frustrating circumstances, that will allow a more relaxed approach to return. I hope so.

[Bryn]

Well said ….. it does seem to me that we are approaching the end of what has been, to me at least, a thing of joy …. Very, very sad IMVVHO

Indeed, and at least one newish contributor needs to pay some attention to the House Rule regarding respect for others here.

[kernelbogey]

I hope that won't happen, not least as I don't have anything comparable to replace it. I do wonder how much the strange times have affected exchanges and reactions and whether, as we can get out into the wider world more and have real and nuanced exchanges of views rather than those affected, sometimes adversely, by being written in limited and frustrating circumstances, that will allow a more relaxed approach to return. I hope so.

Yes... and members will have many and varied reasons for not posting, or drifting away. It seems that plenty of people are looking in who are not members. I have (for myself) decided that constructive criticsim of the BBC has a place here, as there appears to be evidence that the Forum is read there.

As to 'offensive' posts and spats, these seem to me to be considerably fewer than in recent years. There is always the option of responding by PM to the 'offender', rather than shooting from the hip in public.

[Petrushka]

Indeed, and at least one newish contributor needs to pay some attention to the House Rule regarding respect for others here.

We've had some some notoriously disruptive members over the years, more than one of whom I still miss, but there are certain kinds of disruption and derailment that are less obvious but are as dangerous to the ethos of the Forum as the more overt kind, possibly more so as the deliberate trolling goes largely unchecked and often unnoticed as it weaves in and out of the many threads sowing little seeds of disruption by seemingly innocent means: silly little jokes, fake ignorance, playing the victim. And then it comes to a head. Said member disappears for several months then reappears and starts all over again.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I hope that won't happen, not least as I don't have anything comparable to replace it. I do wonder how much the strange times have affected exchanges and reactions and whether, as we can get out into the wider world more and have real and nuanced exchanges of views rather than those affected, sometimes adversely, by being written in limited and frustrating circumstances, that will allow a more relaxed approach to return. I hope so.

Very good point . I think lockdown has had all sorts of psychological impacts. Compared to some of the email exchanges I’ve witnessed at work (ok a few years back ) in supposedly professional civilised environment where such actions have consequences this forum is a model of decorum. The key thing it is very difficult to judge tone with no facial clues . Also what some people find funny others don’t.

If I can make one practical suggestion - a separate thread like “return to the concert hall(and opera house !! ) would mop up a lot of the latter discussion here. It would also be of some public service benefit -outlining what is needed in terms of vaccine proof , seat spacing and general audience pinch points - like the notoriously crowded exit from the Amphitheater loos at Covent Garden!

[french frank]

As to 'offensive' posts and spats, these seem to me to be considerably fewer than in recent years.

I wholeheartedly agree with that It also appears to be true that there are interactions between members which some find, consistently, extremely annoying but which are just as consistently tolerated - perhaps not even noticed - by others. People leave for all sorts of reasons and none at all. For their blood pressure or because they no longer find current contributions interesting.

Alpie's call but my view would be that this thread is for "general topics" about the Proms, helpful information, rather than the individual concerts which each have a thread. There seems to be enough opportunity elsewhere on this forum to air nearly every topic under the sun.

The forum does seem to attract more traffic and more new members when the Proms are on so one assumes they have come to discuss/read about the Proms.

Also agree with Heldenleben's comments.

[LMcD]

Repeated instances of a lack of respect - or worse - are so discouraging, don't you think?
I don't want to inflame feelings by quoting examples 'on-Forum'.
Oh, why not - no names, though. I'm sure certain phrases will be familiar to some people.

[LMcD]

Well said ….. it does seem to me that we are approaching the end of what has been, to me at least, a thing of joy …. Very, very sad IMVVHO

Over the last 4 years, I've started threads on general and specific topics, some serious and others light-hearted. Of late, it seems to me, an increasing proportion of these have become 'hijacked', whereupon what was initially a generally civilized discussion becomes an exchange of bad-tempered and intolerant opinions, lectures and aggressive personalized comments. I've more than once been the target of abuse and personal comments - some of them pretty hurtful - presumably because I had the audacity to start the thread in question. The phrases 'Janet and John level' and 'trivialization' have been used more than once to describe some of my posts. Recently, I've also been described as an example of 'humanity at its most base' and 'apparently intelligent'. I leave it to others to decide whether this sort of thing should be discouraged, but it's caused others to leave or seriously consider leaving, and I'm beginning to wonder whether there's really a place for people like me who want to indulge in nothing more than serious but civilized chat and occasionally deploy our sense of humour.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I’ve received several messages of complaint about the way things are going on this thread.

The question of Covid, masks and vaccination before admission to Proms concerts may seem to be appropriate for discussion on this thread, but I may move comments to Coronavirus thread. Undecided!
All complaints received have made valid points.
There's a consensus that forumists should show respect to one another.
As FF says, people leave for a variety of reasons, buy many return after a while.

BUT some of the complainants have been instrumental in stoking the fires of discontent, so blaming others could result in an own goal.

Please disagree in a friendly and empathetic manner. And don't assume that every barbed comment is personal. In all probability is isn't aimed at any particular individual.

[kernelbogey]

If I can make one practical suggestion - a separate thread like “return to the concert hall(and opera house !! ) would mop up a lot of the latter discussion here. It would also be of some public service benefit -outlining what is needed in terms of vaccine proof , seat spacing and general audience pinch points - like the notoriously crowded exit from the Amphitheater loos at Covent Garden!

I have started such a thread, under Arts and Ideas, suggesting it as a place for comment about the return to any Arts space.