Proms 2021 General topics

[Serial_Apologist]

In view of the current situation and the situation as it looks likely to be over the coming weeks I've reluctantly decided not to proceed with any bookings for this year's Proms. I'd more or less come to this conclusion before booking for period 1 opened with the proviso that I would look at how things were by the time we got to period 2.

The current trajectory of the pandemic in the UK is only too obvious with the government inept handling only making matters worse. Spending money on tickets for concerts more rooted in wishful thinking than reality, travel tickets on a railway service falling apart (it is here) and running the gauntlet of London hotels make it not worth my while.

Should the Proms go ahead I'll be listening on Radio 3 to those of interest (not many, I have to say).

I appreciate your (and teamsaint's) feelings. In my case I'm lucky, in that I haven't attended the main proms for many a year, and Cadogan Hall is only half an hour from where I live; I can turn up there with my second Pfizer jab card, and if presenting it is not proof enough, which it should be, surely, turn round and come straight home.

[vinteuil]

I appreciate your (and teamsaint's) feelings. In my case I'm lucky, in that I haven't attended the main proms for many a year, and Cadogan Hall is only half an hour from where I live; I can turn up there with my second Pfizer jab card, and if presenting it is not proof enough, which it should be, surely, turn round and come straight home.

... serial : unless it's a matter of principle and you don't want to have a vaccination status certificate - otherwise it's easy to get one. Ring 119 and give them your NHS number and you shd receive status letter within five days. Worked a treat for me...


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[Serial_Apologist]

... serial : unless it's a matter of principle and you don't want to have a vaccination status certificate - otherwise it's easy to get one. Ring 119 and give them your NHS number and you shd receive status letter within five days. Worked a treat for me...


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OK, thanks vints. Hope you weren't flooded out this afternoon - I saw the reports.

[Barbirollians]

I would have no qualms about a vaccine passport to protect myself and others. I do have qualms however about the absurd and reckless lifting of restrictions. A hot and stuffy full capacity RAH sounds like a super spreader event.

[teamsaint]

I would have no qualms about a vaccine passport to protect myself and others. I do have qualms however about the absurd and reckless lifting of restrictions. A hot and stuffy full capacity RAH sounds like a super spreader event.

When will it be right to lift restrictions? And do you honestly, especially in your line of work, have no qualms about vaccine passports at all , and how they will be used by unscrupulous governments.

Digital ID in the “ wrong “ hands won’t be good.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uk-digital-identity-and-attributes-trust-framework

[Barbirollians]

When will it be right to lift restrictions? And do you honestly, especially in your line of work, have no qualms about vaccine passports at all , and how they will be used by unscrupulous governments.

Digital ID in the “ wrong “ hands won’t be good.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...rust-framework

When all those who want to be have been doubly vaccinated for 14 days - a third of the adult population has not been - it is reckless in the extreme. I have no qualms about vaccine passports as long as they are subject to the Data Protection Act 2018 in that the information can only be used and accessed for passporting purposes..

[teamsaint]

When all those who want to be have been doubly vaccinated for 14 days - a third of the adult population has not been - it is reckless in the extreme. I have no qualms about vaccine passports as long as they are subject to the Data Protection Act 2018 in that the information can only be used and accessed for passporting purposes..

Looking at the vaccine take up figures, we are heading towards the point that you suggest. Take up has levelled off in 40/50s for first dose, and 50/60 s for second dose, for example. Many young people seem to consider that the personal risk to them is greater from the vaccine than from covid.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1000512/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_27.pdf

The idea that digital ID ( which as night follows day is where vaccine passports lead) would not be used for nefarious purposes by the likes of gove, johnson, patel , raab etc is one I find very hard to believe. And it certainly isn’t worth the risk of setting off down that road.Of course there are enormous practical issues that will be very bad news for individuals.

[Bryn]

Looking at the vaccine take up figures, we are heading towards the point that you suggest. Take up has levelled off in 40/50s for first dose, and 50/60 s for second dose, for example. Many young people seem to consider that the personal risk to them is greater from the vaccine than from covid.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1000512/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_27.pdf

The idea that digital ID ( which as night follows day is where vaccine passports lead) would not be used for nefarious purposes by the likes of gove, johnson, patel , raab etc is one I find very hard to believe. And it certainly isn’t worth the risk of setting off down that road.Of course there are enormous practical issues that will be very bad news for individuals.

Yes, conspiracy theories do, indeed, remain rife.

[teamsaint]

Yes, conspiracy theories do, indeed, remain rife.

Meaning what , exactly ?

Is the Digital ID framework a “conspiracy theory” ? If you can show me that it is, I would be very relieved.

I shouldn’t have thought that most liberal leaning people would trust digital ID in the hands of the current government. I don’t.

If that makes me a conspiracy theorist in some people’s eyes, then so be it.

edit: re vaccine passports, the public administration and constitutional affairs committee report in June was pretty damning of govt plans in all respects.

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/327/public-administration-and-constitutional-affairs-committee/news/155788/no-justification-for-covid-passports-say-committee/

[Bryn]

Meaning what , exactly ? . . .

Meaning that rather too many of the young, and some not so young, appear to be taken in by such as those who have misappropriated the honourable name of "White Rose" to spread their conspiracy theories about COVID-19 being a myth invented by those who wish to increase control over them and that vaccination is a conspiracy to introduce 'microchips' into their bodies to control them further. It can surely not only be in the area |I live in which is festooned with home-printed stickers spreading their essentially fascist messages.

[LMcD]

The Proms are to go ahead at full capacity with audience strongly recommended to wear masks (BBC News website).

[french frank]

The Proms are to go ahead at full capacity with audience strongly recommended to wear masks (BBC News website).

Hope the weather's cooled down a bit by then …

[Serial_Apologist]

Hope the weather's cooled down a bit by then …

Or even warmed up again - it's a bit too early to say. Either way there will still be residual heat from the current heatwave, the RAH not being a venue easy to ventilate, and it not having aircon.

[Petrushka]

The Proms are to go ahead at full capacity with audience strongly recommended to wear masks (BBC News website).

The Proms Planner for period 2, originally scheduled for July 19, now opens on July 22 with booking open for additional tickets for period 1 on July 23.

In all honesty, I think that full capacity, while understandable under the guidelines, is rather reckless and given the trajectory of covid cases generally the Proms may well come to a grinding halt in mid season. In addition, programmes are still short and we also have the 'mystery Proms' as a yet unknown factor. And then there are hotels and train tickets to book. Weighing up all these considerations, (masking up wouldn't bother me) I still believe I am right, albeit reluctantly, to give this season a miss.

There is too much scope for a messy, costly disaster, which I hope doesn't happen, but, as the pandemic rumbles on, feel that the possibility is just too great to throw my money at going down to London this time.. Looking forward to 2022!

Would be interested in hearing views.

[Simon B]

The Proms Planner for period 2, originally scheduled for July 19, now opens on July 22 with booking open for additional tickets for period 1 on July 23.
...

Would be interested in hearing views.

Note this, which will be controversial, including with some posters here:

Will I need to show 'Covid certification' to attend the BBC Proms?
Yes. The safety of our audiences is our main priority and we are taking every step we can to open the Proms safely without social distancing. This includes Covid Status Certification checks on arrival at the Royal Albert Hall.

We also strongly encourage audiences to wear face coverings for the duration of their visit.

In order to enter the Royal Albert Hall, those over 18 years old, will be required to demonstrate one of the following:

evidence of a negative lateral flow test, either taken at home or at a test centre, within 48 hours of the performance
evidence of double vaccination provided via the NHS App or letter provided by the NHS
proof of natural immunity based upon a positive PCR test taken within 180 days of the performance

It's noteworthy that there's immediately a logistical problem with that. People living in some of the nations of the UK that aren't England can't provide a Covid Pass via the NHS App. [There are other routes to doing it online - which doesn't negate that this highlights just one of the many absurdities of things as they stand]

I have tickets for a few of the events in the first period, which was sold as socially distanced on the clearly expressed understanding that this might change. Now that it has, and in the light of the broader context, I'm in two minds as to whether to go. I've been to a number of socially distanced events and generally assessed them to be very low risk indeed. A full RAH on the other hand with the current trajectory of prevalence, Covid passports or not... Hmmmm. Careful consideration required.

My broader view is that it's a long way from guaranteed that things will be markedly better in 2022.