Prom 39 (4.09.21) - John Wilson Conducts the Sinfonia of London

[gradus]

Totally agree about the singer, the music, the orchestra and John Wilson in the above comments. What a breath of fresh air he was when he first appeared at the Proms with 'The John Wilson Orchestra'. And apart from musical considerations think of the amount of work he has given to London musicians. He deserves noithing but praise. So talented.

My view too.

[Prommer]

Some depressingly sexist and utterly unaware of discrimination responses on this thread - she compared it to the VPO’s old days . Some people seem to think it is OK to discriminate so long as the white men are good at what they do.

I confess I had overlooked that you were pointing up, via the Times review, a sense that the Sinfonia has racial as well as gender issues. Blimey. What, in your view, is the correct number? Will you not listen again unless it is corrected? How will your ears' experience change as the numbers change, and why/how?

[Cockney Sparrow]

.... What, in your view, is the correct number?.......

And on what criteria, BBCSO - overall UK National data as to minorities/gender. BBC NOW - as in Wales, Halle - the North/ NW of England?

[LHC]

I confess I had overlooked that you were pointing up, via the Times review, a sense that the Sinfonia has racial as well as gender issues. Blimey. What, in your view, is the correct number? Will you not listen again unless it is corrected? How will your ears' experience change as the numbers change, and why/how?

Having watched the concert on BBC Four the other night, I’m not sure that there was much basis for the Times’ critic’s complaint. As far as I could see there were around 20 women playing in the orchestra. That’s much more than the VPO manage even now, and is in no way comparable to the VPO’s old days when the most you would see was one or two women. With the exception of the brass, all other sections of the orchestra included at least one woman, and most had several.

I would also guess that it’s not too dissimilar to the numbers in several permanent orchestras in the UK and in Europe. For example, the Berlin Phil website lists 20 women members in the orchestra in total, so if the BPO had played a similar programme, it would have probably included fewer women than John Wilson’s hand-picked orchestra.

That’s not to say that there aren’t gender and racial diversity issues in British orchestras, but as far as I could see, the insinuation in the Times review that the Sinfonia of London is an outlier and a dreadful throwback to non-diverse orchestras of the past was simply not justified.

[BBMmk2]

Having watched the concert on BBC Four the other night, I’m not sure that there was much basis for the Times’ critic’s complaint. As far as I could see there were around 20 women playing in the orchestra. That’s much more than the VPO manage even now, and is in no way comparable to the VPO’s old days when the most you would see was one or two women. With the exception of the brass, all other sections of the orchestra included at least one woman, and most had several.

I would also guess that it’s not too dissimilar to the numbers in several permanent orchestras in the UK and in Europe. For example, the Berlin Phil website lists 20 women members in the orchestra in total, so if the BPO had played a similar programme, it would have probably included fewer women than John Wilson’s hand-picked orchestra.

That’s not to say that there aren’t gender and racial diversity issues in British orchestras, but as far as I could see, the insinuation in the Times review that the Sinfonia of London is an outlier and a dreadful throwback to non-diverse orchestras of the past was simply not justified.

Was The Times watching the same programme?

[LHC]

Was The Times watching the same programme?

Well the comment about the Orchestra consisting overwhelmingly of white men came from the Times review of the same concert.

[Prommer]

And then we see the logic corollary of The Times's apparent concerns about the Sinfonia of London...https://slippedisc.com/2021/09/engli...-more-diverse/

[Cockney Sparrow]

Well the comment about the Orchestra consisting overwhelmingly of white men came from the Times review of the same concert.

Just to say that every day there has to be at least one anti-BBC article in The Times. Obviously its the way the wind blows with The Times being saddled with trying to get "Times Radio" to lift off from the ground its mired in (anyone here ever listened?). No doubt Murdoch (or one of them) is monitoring GB news to see if that has a following to get a TV channel ready. Its all part of driving the BBC into the ground before a break up/ sell off of the profitable bits before they leave the Dept of Culture and Sport to devise some form of PBS in England and Wales........

Its sad that The Times is the newspaper with the best journalism (with the proviso of filtering out the adulatory Johnson (& Cabal) material - easy enough to spot). And that its behind a paywall. Sad, in the sense that the Telegraph is a shadow of its former self and the Guardian, good as it is, doesn't have the breadth and depth of The Times. (The FT, with its reputation for impartial reporting, is unfortunately priced for financial market customers and beyond the value I would get from it). I avoided Murdoch's paper(s) for many a year but had to recognise its a source of hard information and (often times) quality journalism. With the added opportunity (when the fancy takes) of winding up the UKIP/ xx.....xx Reearch group Bots in the online article comments.

Also, of course, a shame its behind a hard paywall.....