Prom 20 (17.08.21) - The Manchester Collective

[jayne lee wilson]

Anyway! It was soon time to rock on with the Mancs Massive!

In the mock-nostalgic mini-tradition of Schnittke and Gorecki, the Tabakova Suite in the Old Style (a Rameau Homage) which began Part Two offered a lighter, affectionate and tender contrast to the startlingly varied intensities of Part One's fantastical trilogy ...
Then it was party time with the playful razzmatazz of Joseph Horowitz’ Jazz Harpsichord Concerto…! I loved those brushed-drums against strings in the slow blues…
The finale popped all the corks
Great program, great programming!

But wait - there’s more! A stunningly virtuosic encore from those astounding Mancs-Collective strings with Wojciech Kilar’s rushing, relentless, addictively danceable scurry of Orawa…..wow! I was on my feet between the speakers, rollin’ in and rockin’ out!

We had a hot time in the old hall tonight, courtesy MC Adam Szabo!

[kernelbogey]

"Adjusted by Training" ....What a truly terrifying thought.....
They tried to do that to me at school. I kept running home in tears...

Such a shame we can't all sound like Patricia Hughes or Alvar Liddell, isn't it?
Still, if Fr Cormac Rigby had been presenting this wonderful Prom, there would have been a certain unintentional hilarity about the culture clash...

It's not about 'elocution' etc - it's about professionalism, by which I do not mean speaking RP!

For some here, it's FM compression; for others, vibrato (or not); for me, this particular presenter - whom you may note I am not naming - makes the concert unlistenable to.

...the patronising, sing-song nursery school teacher tone has not gone.

(And yes, I did like the voices of Cormac Rigby, Peter Barker et al, but I also recognise that times and taste have moved on: that doesn't mean I have to listen to the voice of someone which irritates me in some kind of 'levelling up' penance.)

[jayne lee wilson]

FM Compression directly affects the music itself, how you hear it; as does vibrato in a different context. So you can't avoid it except by switching off or switching away from FM. But presenters can easily be repressed by the level adjustment…fade down, fade up when the music is imminent (or in this specific case, when Adam Szabo starts to speak)..… so I’m still baffled why you would miss a whole concert just for an intro/outro voice… a small part of a big night.

Yes, it is rare for me to find vocal delivery (as opposed to poor content) annoying in a presenter (Maybe all those hours in language labs weren’t wasted; but I’ve lived among a wide range of accents and vocal styles; I hear the self-expression in the sound of speech; to me its a bit like birdsong).
But I don't hear anything like the vocal characteristics (“patronising, sing-song”) you describe in Liz Alker’s delivery. Just a youthful excitement and enthusiasm, an individuality which I find very appealing. I’m not sure what “professionalism” means specifically in this context either.

And along with Adam Szabo’s excellent, musically-informative and pleasure-enhancing intros from the stage, perfect for this marvellous concert. (He spoke very movingly of Julius Eastman's sufferings and artistic obscurity, inflicted upon him by an appallingly prejudiced world; what an amazing piece Eastman's Holy Presence of Joan d'Arc turned out to be...).

What a shame you missed it. (But you can still get it back…..go on, you know you want to .…a few bars of the Gorecki should soon pin you to your chair; the Kilar might get you out of it! ).

Need further temptation? Tracks 6-8 here are the Suite from the concert…

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/dobrinka-tabakova-string-paths-lithuanian-chamber-orchestra/0002894764826

Playing now.... the whole album’s gorgeous…
Listen to this fabulous concert everyone! Feel the Love…

[Quarky]

Yes, it is rare for me to find vocal delivery (as opposed to poor content) annoying in a presenter (Maybe all those hours in language labs weren’t wasted; but I’ve lived among a wide range of accents and vocal styles; I hear the self-expression in the sound of speech; to me its a bit like birdsong).
But I don't hear anything like the vocal characteristics (“patronising, sing-song”) you describe in Liz Alker’s delivery. Just a youthful excitement and enthusiasm, an individuality which I find very appealing. I’m not sure what “professionalism” means specifically in this context either.

We seem to be in the North-South divide . EA did state at the beginning of the broadcast that the Proms was being taken over by North this evening. Looking ahead, Radio 3 will be moving to Salford, so it may well be that the South will be losing out in the long term.

Personally, I don’t care for EA’s Saturday morning Breakfast, for more than one reason, but I didn’t find the voice got in the way of the music this evening.

A useful article , from the Daily Express, not noted for its liberalism !:: https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-...rprise-bbc-ont

Also, the Church Times:: https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articl...io-3-presenter

Comments to follow on the music (if there’s anything to add to the above).

[Barbirollians]

This ECM Tabakova album, including the Suite in tonight's program, was released to many glowing reviews....

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/dobrinka-tabakova-string-paths-lithuanian-chamber-orchestra/0002894764826

....playing now..... some very appealing music here.....do try it...
CD widely available.

I bought that album - with its starry performers and enjoyed it a great deal . I recall ferney was rather sniffy about it.

I did not listen to the concert last night but will catch up later though am minded to skip the Gorecki which I recall sounding like a war between a lot of knitting needles.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It's not about 'elocution' etc - it's about professionalism, by which I do not mean speaking RP!

(And yes, I did like the voices of Cormac Rigby, Peter Barker et al, but I also recognise that times and taste have moved on: that doesn't mean I have to listen to the voice of someone which irritates me in some kind of 'levelling up' penance.)

I have a northern accent, and don’t have a problem with the accent of Elizabeth Alker. It’s her kindergarten manner that’s the issue. And the content.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

"Adjusted by Training" ....What a truly terrifying thought.....
They tried to do that to me at school. I kept running home in tears...

The things KB were referring to - “overall style, verbal ticks, and a patronising tone - all of which could be adjusted by training” are only loosely attached to accent, occurring with so-called RP presenters too. Training is important, but some presenters are reluctant to adapt.

[oddoneout]

You should hear me when I'm excited!

Yes, from what I heard of it whilst distributing Catfood (radios-all-over-the-house etc) a lively dialogue on Manchester's own rich history of nurturing toward new music, Birtwistle and Max Davies etc., even including the final section of Worldes Blis....!
Radio 3 at its best....

Lively indeed although I did find myself saying "slow down girl", and "let the man speak" towards the end where EA's enthusiasm rather ran away with her and I would have liked to hear more of what Stuart M was trying to say. The difficulty I have with EA's voice is to do with a certain lack of clarity, a slight wooliness which, as I have difficulties with deciphering speech sounds for some reason, means I struggle to make sense of what she is saying - frustrating on her Saturday mornings when the music is often unfamiliar so needing to be able to make out what she says becomes more important. I don't perceive issues with patronising, verbal tics etc that are enough (if I pick them up in the first place) to cause problems.
Given the nature of the concert she seemed to me to be a reasonable choice to present, and I didn't find it a problem.
In terms of the music itself, I missed the first two items, although I'm pretty certain I've heard the Gorecki before anyway, but my overall conclusion was "Nothing here to frighten the horses*, useful contrast to the more familiar repertoire of other concerts, will look out for the repeat".
* In fact after the introductory lead up to the Julius Eastman piece I was surprised and truth be told a tad let down that it didn't sound as I had expected...

[Serial_Apologist]

Alkers' Seltzer is used to get things moving, I think.

[edashtav]

I attended what was probably the UK premiere of Gorecki’s Harpsichord Concerto with the late Elisabeth Chojnacka and David Atherton conducting the strings of the London Sinfonietta on the South Bank sometime in the 1980s. I was lucky to be seated just behind the delighted and deeply moved composer whose group contained Andrzej Panufnik. I was thrilled by Elisabeth’s amazing rhythmic control, commitment and vivacity. The soloist was small figure topped with big hair. She was dressed in a shiny black jumpsuit, and ‘jump’ characterised her performance for she hardly sat on her stool but jumped up and down as she clattered quaver after semi-quaver with great velocity from her double keyboard harpsichord which was amplified to project through and sometimes above the sound of a modest band of Sinfonietta strings. I soon realised that the concerto’s first movement was a ‘continuation’ of Ligeti’s Continuum: that the plucky instrument that produced discrete sounds was being forced by speed, repetition and sheer willpower into something akin to a pipe organ. Elisabeth’s intensity was electrifying. Has she been taken over by the Devil, I wondered?
The second movement was, and is, almost as fast but far more folk-inflected and there were elements of dialogue and discussion, as opposed to a combat to the death for dominance. Jokes and rumbustious fun replaced serious intensity. What a frolic!
How did Mahan and the Mancunians performance compare? Well, it wasn’t as intense and the first movement was a trifle slower. That allowed the subtle changes and details to make a difference. It wasn’t quite such a tour de force, I wasn’t steam-rollered but I appreciated its greater sensitive and nuance. Mahan did not sound as if his life was on the line but he seemed calm and in control.
In the finale, Mahan Estafani came out on top: his interpretation was more multi-faceted, more ethnic, with a great sense of fun and gusto. Great Prom fare.

Edmund Finnis’s piece sounded like apprentice music to me. Despite its tinkly, tinsel wrapping, once it settled it showed a great debt to Part and John Adams. I’ll return to his music in a year or two to find whether he has found his own voice.

Julius Eastman’s The Holy Presence of Joan d'Arc sounded far more individual but was that sound his own, or given his problems and a piece that was recovered from recordings rather than a master score was it a collective effort? My concentration wavered before the piece petered out.

I’ve yet to catch up with the second half and I’m afraid that I may not make the effort as its composers are accomplished but hardly boundary pushers.

[HighlandDougie]

Edmund Finnis’s piece sounded like apprentice music to me. Despite its tinkly, tinsel wrapping, once it settled it showed a great debt to Part and John Adams. I’ll return to his music in a year or two to find whether he has found his own voice.

As an aside, his "voice" might not be very loud but I've much enjoyed this NMC CD, bought in the belief that Ilan Volkov was unlikely to be performing, apologies Bryn for stealing your term, "dross". Worth a listen.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edmund-Finnis-Air-Turning-Various/dp/B07MF42ZL5/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=edmund+finnis+the+air+turning&qid=1629378718&s=music&sr=1-1

[edashtav]

As an aside, his "voice" might not be very loud but I've much enjoyed this NMC CD, bought in the belief that Ilan Volvo was unlikely to be performing, apologies Bryn for stealing your term, "dross". Worth a listen.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edmund-Finn...s=music&sr=1-1

Thank you for that advice: I’ve ordered the CD and will report next week.

[jayne lee wilson]

Manchester Collective's Finnis album is here, including the Proms piece, and their own take on Transfigured night...

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/the-centre-is-everywhere-manchester-collective/ylemuccotjjha

...playing now....."Company" reminds me more of Glass than any other minimalist (despite its brevity), but I instinctively respond to such sounds....

The NMCDD is a great find, thanks HD...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Mahan owns and plays a superb and unique harpsichord that does indeed possess a dynamic range.

That's most interesting. How it is achieved? I have actually tried to design such an instrument - not easy!

[jayne lee wilson]

Mahan owns and plays a superb and unique harpsichord that does indeed possess a dynamic range.

Is it this one, Tony...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKzGyOdJkU