Prom 8 (5.08.21) - Gražinytė-Tyla Conducts the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra

[Boilk]

I’m not sure scheduling three symphonies in a row really works - unless they are all of the very highest quality e.g. Mozart 38,39,40 or the Vaughan Williams 4,5,6 ( I think it was ) Prom some years back. Pitting two competent if ever so slightly uninspired works against one the giants of the repertoire is almost cruel . I heard most of the recent COTWs on Ruth Gipps and also Robert Simpson’s . I think his work is perhaps more deserving of an outing. Presumably the Ades is a reworking of material from the opera . I didn’t think the opera a success and I don’t think the material stood up as an orchestral experience. After those phenomenal early works he seems to have gone off the boil a bit. I’m not sure living in Los Angeles is a good choice creatively.

Well, three symphonies in name only. The Gipps is more a sort of orchestral rhapsody (in 8 continuous sections), the Adès effectively a suite from the opera - in both cases they used the moniker 'symphony'. It's hard to think of any musical term that has been so broadly claimed as 'symphony'.

I agree that Adès has lately "gone off the boil a bit" - although his handling of orchestral colour is as deft as ever.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Well, three symphonies in name only. The Gipps is more a sort of orchestral rhapsody (in 8 continuous sections), the Adès effectively a suite from the opera - in both cases they used the moniker 'symphony'. It's hard to think of any musical term that has been so broadly claimed as 'symphony'.

I agree that Adès has lately "gone off the boil a bit" - although his handling of orchestral colour is as deft as ever.

You’re right - there needs to be a trade descriptions act really..

[edashtav]

Well, three symphonies in name only. The Gipps is more a sort of orchestral rhapsody (in 8 continuous sections), the Adès effectively a suite from the opera - in both cases they used the moniker 'symphony'. It's hard to think of any musical term that has been so broadly claimed as 'symphony'.

I agree that Adès has lately "gone off the boil a bit" - although his handling of orchestral colour is as deft as ever.

I agree with you!

[jayne lee wilson]

Well, three symphonies in name only. The Gipps is more a sort of orchestral rhapsody (in 8 continuous sections), the Adès effectively a suite from the opera - in both cases they used the moniker 'symphony'. It's hard to think of any musical term that has been so broadly claimed as 'symphony'.

I agree that Adès has lately "gone off the boil a bit" - although his handling of orchestral colour is as deft as ever.

I recall a discussion with the great and much-missed Roehre on here, about "the symphony", inspired by Petrassi's Concertos for Orchestra (named in deliberate avoidance of...).... we concluded that "a symphony is whatever a composer calls a symphony".... and the creative concepts of such are many and varied - going back centuries. Perhaps I would add that if you do call it that, you are making a certain statement of intent...

I did feel that both the Gipps and the Adès lived up to that statement, whatever else they did...

[oddoneout]

Well, three symphonies in name only. The Gipps is more a sort of orchestral rhapsody (in 8 continuous sections), the Adès effectively a suite from the opera - in both cases they used the moniker 'symphony'. It's hard to think of any musical term that has been so broadly claimed as 'symphony'.

I agree that Adès has lately "gone off the boil a bit" - although his handling of orchestral colour is as deft as ever.

And did I hear aright that he is doing another rehash of the material? A problem I had with the symphony was that I kept hearing chunks that made me think "that sounds like/reminds me of...", and perhaps because of the distraction caused I then didn't feel that there was a consistent flow - it just seemed rather clunky, a multi-media collage rather than a detailed single medium image. But hey, what do I know, I just listen to music.
I did enjoy the Gipps and perhaps the Ades suffered by contrast, to my simple ears.

[edashtav]

I recall a discussion with the great and much-missed Roehre on here, about "the symphony", inspired by Petrassi's Concertos for Orchestra (named in deliberate avoidance of...).... we concluded that "a symphony is whatever a composer calls a symphony".... and the creative concepts of such are many and varied - going back centuries. Perhaps I would add that if you do call it that, you are making a certain statement of intent...

I did feel that both the Gipps and the Adès lived up to that statement, whatever else they did...

And … if you’re writing a suite, are you indicating another kind of intent?

So… what was Florent Schmitt’s intent in his Suite Sans Esprit De Suite op.89?

[jayne lee wilson]

And … if you’re writing a suite, are you indicating another kind of intent?

So… what was Florent Schmitt’s intent in his Suite Sans Esprit De Suite op.89?

1) Yes, I think so....
2) I could never guess at an individual creator's specific intent, just reflect upon how the naming of a work indicates a suggestion of how it relates to what came before; how a listener might apprehend it.

Schmitt didn't call his work a symphony, thats the point. Just as Debussy called La Mer "three symphonic sketches". If any if these had come down to us named as "symphonies" would we have listened differently? I think we might well have done.

But I've not heard the Schmitt piece and can't yet find it on my streamer. Alistair Hinton, the impassioned scholar of and enthusiast for Schmitt's work, may well have more to say on it...

[Serial_Apologist]

1) Yes, I think so....
2) I could never guess at an individual creator's specific intent, just reflect upon how the naming of a work indicates a suggestion of how it relates to what came before; how a listener might apprehend it.

Schmitt didn't call his work a symphony, thats the point. Just as Debussy called La Mer "there symphonic sketches". If any if these had come down to us named as "symphonies" would we have listened differently? I think we might well have done.

But I've not heard the Schmitt piece and can't yet find it on my streamer. Alistair Hinton, the impassioned scholar of and enthusiast for Schmitt's work, may well have more to say on it...

It's quite short, and in the mid-period Schmitt neo-classical style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DgOObwlyWc

I hadn't heard it, or heard of it before.

PS - I strongly recommend going to the link recommended by the last of the comments on that youtube, as it says a lot about both work and title.

[BBMmk2]

I’m not sure scheduling three symphonies in a row really works - unless they are all of the very highest quality e.g. Mozart 38,39,40 or the Vaughan Williams 4,5,6 ( I think it was ) Prom some years back. Pitting two competent if ever so slightly uninspired works against one the giants of the repertoire is almost cruel . I heard most of the recent COTWs on Ruth Gipps and also Robert Simpson’s . I think his work is perhaps more deserving of an outing. Presumably the Ades is a reworking of material from the opera . I didn’t think the opera a success and I don’t think the material stood up as an orchestral experience. After those phenomenal early works he seems to have gone off the boil a bit. I’m not sure living in Los Angeles is a good choice creatively.

Yes! Dr Robert Simpson’s music is criminally neglected. The Proms is very much the place where to have a retrospective of this composer.

[Barbirollians]

I thought it was an excellent performance of the Gipps symphony. I did not find the Ades very impressive on first hearing rather wearisome to my ears.

[Barbirollians]

I thought it was an excellent performance of the Gipps symphony. I did not find the Ades very impressive on first hearing rather wearisome to my ears.

I really enjoyed the Brahms 3 - lithe but with great warmth.