Prom 4 (1.08.21) - An Evening of Mozart with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

20:00 Sunday 1 August 2021 ON TV

Royal Albert Hall

Mozart: Symphony No. 39 in E flat major
Mozart: Symphony No. 40 in G minor
Mozart: Symphony No. 41 in C major, 'Jupiter'

Scottish Chamber Orchestra
Maxim Emelyanychev, conductor

Composed over a period of just two months in the summer of 1788, Mozart’s three final symphonies together form a musical sequence that explores all sides of humanity. No. 39 offers a grand introduction, its fanfares and dances setting the scene, before we’re plunged into the dark drama of the Symphony No. 40, and finally emerge into the sunlight of the ‘Jupiter’ Symphony, with its dazzling fugal finale. The Scottish Chamber Orchestra is conducted by its dynamic Principal Conductor Maxim Emelyanychev.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

At least we're not being subjected to a bizarre Harnoncourt hypothesis, with all three being merged into mythical single work, with an interval in the middle of no. 40.

[french frank]

And on TV. Bit heavy for BBC TV?

(Not complaining, though!)

[Ein Heldenleben]

At least we're not being subjected to a bizarre Harnoncourt hypothesis, with all three being merged into mythical single work, with an interval in the middle of no. 40.

Please don’t re- start that debate . It’ll be the Adagietto placing in Mahler 5 all over again…

[Bryn]

Please don’t re- start that debate . It’ll be the Adagietto placing in Mahler 5 all over again…

Now about that third hammer-blow in th 6th . . .

[jayne lee wilson]

At least we're not being subjected to a bizarre Harnoncourt hypothesis, with all three being merged into mythical single work, with an interval in the middle of no. 40.

AS Helden says, this polarises opinion so I won't go on at any length, but - among others, Savall also supports this view of the late mysterious trilogy in his equally wonderful recording. I don't know what Emelyanychev thinks....

I played the Harnoncourt (one of the all-time great recordings of Mozart, irrespective of its aesthetic philosophy) a few days ago, and I did take the interval after the andante of the 40th; works very well. Gives you time to consider the emotional narrative, and thematic connections between the individual works.
No-one says you have to perceive them this way; the toweringly great symphonies remain, in whatever way you present them.....first time I heard part of the 40th on a 1970s LP classical anthology, it had a rhythm section added....

I suspect it would have rather amused the composer....he'd probably have tried it in the bar later.......and I do think he was absolutely capable, and ready, to compose three symphonies as an integrated sequence....

[vinteuil]

Now about that third hammer-blow in th 6th . . .

... and notes inégales - chiavette - double dotting in French overtures - One Voice Per Part...

I suddenly feel very old and tired. And bored


.

[jayne lee wilson]

... and notes inégales - chiavette - double dotting in French overtures - One Voice Per Part...

I suddenly feel very old and tired. And bored


.

Thanks for that reminder..... excellent piece here, very interesting reading ( and listening....cool animations, huh?).....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_inégales

[Ein Heldenleben]

AS Helden says, this polarises opinion so I won't go on at any length, but - among others, Savall also supports this view of the late mysterious trilogy in his equally wonderful recording. I don't know what Emelyanychev thinks....

I played the Harnoncourt (one of the all-time great recordings of Mozart, irrespective of its aesthetic philosophy) a few days ago, and I did take the interval after the andante of the 40th; works very well. Gives you time to consider the emotional narrative, and thematic connections between the individual works.
No-one says you have to perceive them this way; the toweringly great symphonies remain, in whatever way you present them.....first time I heard part of the 40th on a 1970s LP classical anthology, it had a rhythm section added....

I suspect it would have rather amused the composer....he'd probably have tried it in the bar later.......and I do think he was absolutely capable, and ready, to compose three symphonies as an integrated sequence....

Thanks for your restraint. If I can engage in meta debate I find the one vast symphony debate more interesting than the Adagietto debate or the 3 hammer blow debate partly because the idea is so left field ….

After thought- was that rhythm version the celebrated Waldos De Los Rios 70’s hit ? Might even have got to number one . I was camping in France that year and it blared out on the bar jukebox time after time so it’s seared into my soul. funnily enough Humphrey Burton once confessed on air he liked it . ( so did I .. a bit )

[jayne lee wilson]

Thanks for your restraint. If I can engage in meta debate I find the one vast symphony debate more interesting than the Adagietto debate or the 3 hammer blow debate partly because the idea is so left field ….

After thought- was that rhythm version the celebrated Waldos De Los Rios 70’s hit ? Might even have got to number one . I was camping in France that year and it blared out on the bar jukebox time after time so it’s seared into my soul. funnily enough Humphrey Burton once confessed on air he liked it . ( so did I .. a bit )

It may well have been that one, or part of it.....I think Dad bought it soon after getting the first family stereo..... (which no-one listened to much, after the novelty of pingpong balls and trains crossing the room had worn off....)

So I had it all to myself for Zep and Purple, Bowie.... then Radio 3, and the local Record Library.....serendipity. (I recall that Mum hated that particular Mozartian take. Not quite what she was expecting...)....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

…on a 1970s LP classical anthology, it had a rhythm section added....

Reference to this recalls an incident in my last year at primary school. The music teacher allowed some of us to bring our own records to play to the class. One brought the 1812 Overture, but Elvis Presley and Cliff Richard were predominant. I took Mozart’s 40th conducted by Furtwangler. Inevitably, this led to some taunting. One particularly unpleasant character wouldn’t let it drop. For days he went on and on about it, saying “I bet you a million pounds Mozart’s 40th Symphony won’t get into the Top Ten. I accepted the bet, even though I’d never heard of the Top Ten. I hardly saw him again, but a decade later I should have claimed my winnings. There were actually two versions in the singles charts - Waldo de Los Rios, and The Sovereign Collection. One of the few occasions when I bought “a single”.

[pastoralguy]

Didn’t the Shadows have a hit with ‘Mozart Forte?’

[Bryn]

Reference to this recalls an incident in my last year at primary school. The music teacher allowed some of us to bring our own records to play to the class. One brought the 1812 Overture, but Elvis Presley and Cliff Richard were predominant. I took Mozart’s 40th conducted by Furtwangler. Inevitably, this led to some taunting. One particularly unpleasant character wouldn’t let it drop. For days he went on and on about it, saying “I bet you a million pounds Mozart’s 40th Symphony won’t get into the Top Ten. I accepted the bet, even though I’d never heard of the Top Ten. I hardly saw him again, but a decade later I should have claimed my winnings. There were actually two versions in the singles charts - Waldo de Los Rios, and The Sovereign Collection. One of the few occasions when I bought “a single”.

Both totally eclipsed by:

[french frank]

the celebrated Waldos De Los Rios 70’s hit

This one?

I suppose one of the reasons there is so much speculation about the trio of works is that there seems to be no record of what Mozart was thinking - his correspondence during 1788 seems almost entirely to consist of begging letters to his friends, pleading for loans until the subscription money owed to him was paid. If nothing else, it does give an idea of his situation while working on the symphonies.

[Dave2002]

Re Msg 7

Notes inégales - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_in%C3%A9gales

Discussion on this type of thing still happens and has an influence in some places. For example in MuseScore and perhaps other music notation systems there is a Swing option which can affect playback in a player or midi system, and the degree of “swinginess can be adjusted by numerical factors. Of course if human players see the notation mark they can adjust what and how they play, and musicians who play together a lot may converge on a common style.

Too much sounds wrong.

Other similar/related effects, such as double dotting, can be effective if applied sparingly, but tiring if carried to extremes or for too long.