Prom 74 (12.09.20) Last Night of the Proms

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  • cloughie
    Full Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 22194

    #91
    I picked this up from Facebook if anyone is interested. This is purely for information and not trying to put any personal slant on it.

    RULE BRITANNIA
    Here is something you are unlikely to learn via the BBC.
    In the 17th century the seas around Britain were ruled by North African Muslim Slavers. They stopped British ships and carried off the crews to be sold as slaves in Algiers and Tripoli.
    The situation became so bad that fishermen from Devon and Cornwall wouldn’t put out to sea in case they were captured by North African Slave Traders.
    Between 1609 and 1616, 466 British ships were captured by Slave Traders in the English Channel, Irish Sea and North Atlantic, and the crews were sold into slavery.
    In 1625 a raiding party landed at Mount’s Bay in Cornwall and 60 people who had taken refuge in a local church were dragged out, loaded up and taken off to Africa to be sold as slaves.
    On 12 August 1625 the Mayor of Plymouth wrote to London for military help after 27 ships had been seized by North African Muslim Slave Traders in just 10 days. In 1645, 240 people were seized as slaves in Cornwall.
    The situation only began to change after the end of the English Civil War when the Royal Navy was built up under Oliver Cromwell. By 1700, North African Slavers generally knew better than to bother the British Isles in the search for slaves because of the Royal Navy.
    It was a triumph that Britain was finally able to control its own coastal waters. And it was in commemoration of this that in 1740, James Thompson wrote ‘Rule Britannia’. It is a hymn of thanksgiving rather than a proclamation of aggressive Nationalism.
    If you read this far and are interested to learn more, read "White Gold" by Giles Milton.

    Comment

    • Pulcinella
      Host
      • Feb 2014
      • 11081

      #92
      Here's a link to Sir Nicholas Kenyon's take on the whole affair.



      If the link behaves as I hope it will, you should be able to click the 'Read more' at the left near the bottom to see a fuller article.

      Comment

      • french frank
        Administrator/Moderator
        • Feb 2007
        • 30474

        #93
        Yes, I agree with Kenyon's piece but it's 'piffle in the wind' to the Last Night Only tribe who watch it on television. I would like to hear from the genuine Prommers who enjoy attending the LN. How strongly do they feel about the changes in peculiar circumstances? I looked up Johnson's DID choices (2005): three fairly mundane (as in very well-known) classical choices, plus the Clash, the Beatles, Booker T and the M.G.s, The Rolling Stones, Van Morrison. I see this as a hijacking of an event, which (some) Prommers genuinely enjoy after a 'hard season' of concerts, by people who don't have a lot of interest in the Proms at all.

        Of course, I may be quite wrong!
        Last edited by french frank; 05-09-20, 16:22.
        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

        Comment

        • Bryn
          Banned
          • Mar 2007
          • 24688

          #94
          Originally posted by cloughie View Post
          I picked this up from Facebook if anyone is interested. This is purely for information and not trying to put any personal slant on it.

          RULE BRITANNIA
          Here is something you are unlikely to learn via the BBC.
          In the 17th century the seas around Britain were ruled by North African Muslim Slavers. They stopped British ships and carried off the crews to be sold as slaves in Algiers and Tripoli.
          The situation became so bad that fishermen from Devon and Cornwall wouldn’t put out to sea in case they were captured by North African Slave Traders.
          Between 1609 and 1616, 466 British ships were captured by Slave Traders in the English Channel, Irish Sea and North Atlantic, and the crews were sold into slavery.
          In 1625 a raiding party landed at Mount’s Bay in Cornwall and 60 people who had taken refuge in a local church were dragged out, loaded up and taken off to Africa to be sold as slaves.
          On 12 August 1625 the Mayor of Plymouth wrote to London for military help after 27 ships had been seized by North African Muslim Slave Traders in just 10 days. In 1645, 240 people were seized as slaves in Cornwall.
          The situation only began to change after the end of the English Civil War when the Royal Navy was built up under Oliver Cromwell. By 1700, North African Slavers generally knew better than to bother the British Isles in the search for slaves because of the Royal Navy.
          It was a triumph that Britain was finally able to control its own coastal waters. And it was in commemoration of this that in 1740, James Thompson wrote ‘Rule Britannia’. It is a hymn of thanksgiving rather than a proclamation of aggressive Nationalism.
          If you read this far and are interested to learn more, read "White Gold" by Giles Milton.
          Thanks for that. Can you offer a link to where you found it on FB, please? At first, I was a little wary of the "Here is something you are unlikely to learn via the BBC.", but then I noted that the BBC appears to have failed to make much mention of yesterday's far-right organised anti-lockdown demonstration in Trafalgar Square (conspiracy theorists Piers Corbyn and David Icke in prominent attendance).

          Comment

          • french frank
            Administrator/Moderator
            • Feb 2007
            • 30474

            #95
            Originally posted by Bryn View Post
            Thanks for that. Can you offer a link to where you found it on FB, please?
            Bryn - not answering for cloughie :-) I didn't bother looking on Facebook but looked for other references, including The Guardian's review of the book referenced and the references in the Wiki article on Thomas Pellow.

            (I was more interested in how it reflected on the plot of Die Entführung!)
            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

            Comment

            • Bryn
              Banned
              • Mar 2007
              • 24688

              #96
              Originally posted by french frank View Post
              Bryn - not answering for cloughie :-) I didn't bother looking on Facebook but looked for other references, including The Guardian's review of the book referenced and the references in the Wiki article on Thomas Pellow.

              (I was more interested in how it reflected on the plot of Die Entführung!)
              Have had PM with the requested info. Quite understand why a link was not provided here.

              Comment

              • french frank
                Administrator/Moderator
                • Feb 2007
                • 30474

                #97
                Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                Quite understand why a link was not provided here.
                It's something we look out for. Things can be found on the internet, get a link on any social media - and in all innocence be posted here. If members then click on it, our website shows up in their analytics as a 'reference', and consequently as being place with possibly like-minded people. That's why it depends on what the link is: we are like-minded with many people!
                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                Comment

                • CGR
                  Full Member
                  • Aug 2016
                  • 370

                  #98
                  Originally posted by cloughie View Post
                  I picked this up from Facebook if anyone is interested. This is purely for information and not trying to put any personal slant on it.

                  RULE BRITANNIA
                  Here is something you are unlikely to learn via the BBC.
                  In the 17th century the seas around Britain were ruled by North African Muslim Slavers. They stopped British ships and carried off the crews to be sold as slaves in Algiers and Tripoli.
                  The situation became so bad that fishermen from Devon and Cornwall wouldn’t put out to sea in case they were captured by North African Slave Traders.
                  Between 1609 and 1616, 466 British ships were captured by Slave Traders in the English Channel, Irish Sea and North Atlantic, and the crews were sold into slavery.
                  In 1625 a raiding party landed at Mount’s Bay in Cornwall and 60 people who had taken refuge in a local church were dragged out, loaded up and taken off to Africa to be sold as slaves.
                  On 12 August 1625 the Mayor of Plymouth wrote to London for military help after 27 ships had been seized by North African Muslim Slave Traders in just 10 days. In 1645, 240 people were seized as slaves in Cornwall.
                  The situation only began to change after the end of the English Civil War when the Royal Navy was built up under Oliver Cromwell. By 1700, North African Slavers generally knew better than to bother the British Isles in the search for slaves because of the Royal Navy.
                  It was a triumph that Britain was finally able to control its own coastal waters. And it was in commemoration of this that in 1740, James Thompson wrote ‘Rule Britannia’. It is a hymn of thanksgiving rather than a proclamation of aggressive Nationalism.
                  If you read this far and are interested to learn more, read "White Gold" by Giles Milton.

                  Thanks. Interesting post.

                  Comment

                  • DracoM
                    Host
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 12991

                    #99
                    ...........and / but how is it USED today?
                    ...........................................Ah...a bit different form that original history, methinks.

                    Comment

                    • kernelbogey
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 5803

                      Re No 90, Cloughie:
                      RULE BRITANNIA
                      Here is something you are unlikely to learn via the BBC....
                      Interesting post, Cloughie - thanks.
                      In Patrick O'Brian's novels of the Napoleonic Wars (featuring 'lucky' Captain Jack Aubrey and his surgeon Stephen Maturin) he makes much of the pursuit and capture of prizes - i.e. enemy ships and others that were subject to prize money. I have not researched to what extent this amounted to state piracy, but O'Brian researched heavily in ships' logs and other contemporary documents in the National Records Office, so I think many of the incidents he includes are probably based in fact. My point is that the High Seas were pretty lawless. Wiki has an article on Prize Money.

                      Comment

                      • french frank
                        Administrator/Moderator
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 30474

                        Bumping this thread for discussion of the Last Night. I moved the posts about the anti-lockdown etc demonstration which was touching on Covid legislation to the Coronavirus-social-economic-and-other-changes-as-a-result-of-the-pandemic thread, back to the last mention of a topic relating to the Last Night, namely RULE BRITANNIA. A few strays remain but the Covid topic can be resumed on the other thread.
                        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                        Comment

                        • Pulcinella
                          Host
                          • Feb 2014
                          • 11081

                          According to our Culture Secretary, common sense has now prevailed.

                          There had been fierce criticism after the lyrics were dropped for The Last Night of the Proms.


                          Decision comes three days into tenure of new director general Tim Davie, who said original choice was due to Covid-19

                          Comment

                          • Serial_Apologist
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 37835

                            Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                            According to our Culture Secretary
                            "Pusillanimous lot, the BBC", I can hear my late father grumbling.

                            "Yes but Dad, they've done what you wanted them to!"

                            "I know, Son, but they're still a pusillanimous lot!"

                            - I call it capitulation.

                            Comment

                            • Barbirollians
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 11753

                              It seems our new DG - former deputy chairman of Hammersmith and Fulham Tories and Tory council candidate has ordered the return of the words . Shortly, it seems before ordering a cull of comedians who upset the government.

                              Comment

                              • DracoM
                                Host
                                • Mar 2007
                                • 12991

                                So apparently it is now lurching to the right?
                                I fear for 'More or Less'
                                so
                                we may have Dominic Cummings sitting in for Emily Maitlis on Newsnight...............erm......


                                Should get him a place being interviewed on the new, Davie-Age Newsnight, then?
                                Last edited by DracoM; 02-09-20, 15:32.

                                Comment

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