Prom 54 (30.08.20) Sir Simon Rattle - live

[Boilk]

You're right, DracoM: it was Ades-lite and, I for one, found his final blaze of sun less convincing than Ravel's in Daphnis.

Funny you should mention Ravel's Daphnis edashtav. Listening to the opening of the VW5 last night, it struck me that the swaying horn chords - perched as they are atop a flattened 7th bass line - evoke a strong reminiscence of the opening of the "Danse générale" in Daphnis. VW would of course have been very familiar with the work of his former teacher.

[Alison]

Sorry to report, Dawn lived down to my expectations of Adès. For me, as a composer, Adès is a fine piano accompanist.

Hang on, Suzy said it was ‘an instant classic’

[LMcD]

Hang on, Suzy said it was ‘an instant classic’

Fortunately, the comprehensiveness of my ignorance when it comes to Thomas Adès is such that I had no particular expectations and therefore wasn't disappointed. I thought it sounded nice and created an enjoyably strange atmosphere, and I wouldn't mind hearing it again at some point. I won't let Suzy's instant(aneous) joy affect my judgement.
My policy when listening to pieces with which I'm unfamiliar is the same as that which works wonders in charity shops - set out with no particular object or approach in mind - something good turns up more often than not, but I don't worry if I leave empty-handed.
I actually nodded off during the Kurtag - that's no reflection on him or his composition - but my wife assures me that it will be safe for me to experience it on iPlayer, from which I deduce that it was not aggressive, repetitive or too loud in the way that many modern pieces seem to be.

[cloughie]

Fortunately, the comprehensiveness of my ignorance when it comes to Thomas Adès is such that I had no particular expectations and therefore wasn't disappointed. I thought it sounded nice and created an enjoyably strange atmosphere, and I wouldn't mind hearing it again at some point. I won't let Suzy's instant(aneous) joy affect my judgement.
My policy when listening to pieces with which I'm unfamiliar is the same as that which works wonders in charity shops - set out with no particular object or approach in mind - something good turns up more often than not, but I don't worry if I leave empty-handed.
I actually nodded off during the Kurtag - that's no reflection on him or his composition - but my wife assures me that it will be safe for me to experience it on iPlayer, from which I deduce that it was not aggressive, repetitive or too loud in the way that many modern pieces seem to be.

A good summary LMcD, ending with a mild sting in the tail or should that be tale.

[silvestrione]

To anyone who wasn't watching: Rattle conducted the RVW symphony without a score.

I listened on the radio, and watched the end of the TV (which went on longer of course), to see the layout etc., and was intrigued to see Rattle conducting without a score! How often has he done it I wonder. On the BPO Digital Concert Hall recently I saw him using a score in Sibelius 6. So really interesting that he knows the one and not the other (which he's done a fair bit). On the other hand, he's had plenty of time on his hands, perhaps, recently! And no question but he is deeply absorbed by this music now.

[muzzer]

I’m watching this now and the VW in particular is sublime and profoundly moving.

[LMcD]

I've now watched the Kurtag, which put me in mind of Bartok's 'night creatures'. It might also go well with some of the goings-on during 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'.
I wholeheartedly agree with muzzer about the Vaughan Williams, although I'm sure some of the more egregious imperfections of last night's performance may be brought to our attention before too long by those with a greater understanding of these things. The mood created by the slow movement was very similar to the evocation of Bloomsbury Square in No.2. I'm afraid the lack of give and take (= ?) at the beginning which somebody mentioned must have escaped my attention.

[Keraulophone]

For me, as a composer, Adès is a fine piano accompanist.

“Benjamin Britten will be remembered as one of the world’s finest accompanists” - Igor Stravinsky
(or words to that effect)

[Bryn]

“Benjamin Britten will be remembered as one of the world’s finest accompanists” - Igor Stravinsky
(or words to that effect)

A dear Scratch Orchestra friend, the late Alec Hill (nuclear physicist, systems programmer, and single reed player) used to relate a Stravinsky 'quote' (I have never been able to find confirmation of its accuracy) regarding the War Requiem, "One wipes a tear from the eye as one notes the faulty counterpoint". A wry, even if a manufactured, 'quotation'.

[LMcD]

“Benjamin Britten will be remembered as one of the world’s finest accompanists” - Igor Stravinsky
(or words to that effect)

Britten was equally uncomplimentary about 'The Rake's Progress', saying he liked everything about it except the music. Copland said that listening to RVW's 5th was like looking at a cow for 45 minutes. FWIW, I feel the same way about Copland's 3rd symphony.

[edashtav]

Funny you should mention Ravel's Daphnis edashtav. Listening to the opening of the VW5 last night, it struck me that the swaying horn chords - perched as they are atop a flattened 7th bass line - evoke a strong reminiscence of the opening of the "Danse générale" in Daphnis. VW would of course have been very familiar with the work of his former teacher.

Aha.. perceptive comment, Boilk: as times goes by, the debt RVW owed to his temporary teacher increases.

[edashtav]

Sorry to report, Dawn lived down to my expectations of Adès. For me, as a composer, Adès is a fine piano accompanist.

Sadly, I do find that a law of diminishing returns applies to Adès.

[kernelbogey]

Sadly, I do find that a law of diminishing returns applies to Adès.

The Pärt Cantus in Memoriam BB was used very effectively (in its entirety, IIRC) in a debut film by a young Latin American filmmaker; his hame and title of film escape me for the moment. Apart from that, I have heard it perhaps two or three times. I don't own it on CD. I'm happy to bump into it from time to time on R3.

I shall listen again to the Adès, and then will no doubt feel the same way about it as I do the Pärt. (FWIW I was reminded more of Paart's Fratres, which I rate higher than the Cantus.)

[silvestrione]

Sadly, I do find that a law of diminishing returns applies to Adès.

As I think Odaline was implying at one point, his reworkings of other people's music (Couperin, Dowland...) are fascinating. I'm pretty keen on Tevot, which evokes (for me) an ark on surging waves. Dawn tended to remind me of a Rattle remark about a piece of minimalism, 'you have to be a stone to get anything from that', until the end, which made me sit up.

[silvestrione]

I should have said, I intend to give it another go, with Odaline's remarks, made after the performance, in mind.

The Kurtag (and indeed, everything else in this concert) was, on the other hand, totally absorbing.