Prom 1: First Night of the Proms - 19.07.19

[Bryn]

Seated, Bryn, as usual in my preferred side stalls (in this case on the cello side!)

Unless I can get away with taking my shooting stick with me (I have been successful in the past). I will be standing in the Arena, also probably somewhere on the cello side.

[Master Jacques]

I happened to catch Front Row on Radio 4, which I don't normally listen to, when John Wilson (no, not the conductor) was hosting. He twice mispronounced 'Glagolitic' in the course of a piece on the Proms of less than ten minutes.

That's the man. It is a sign of his superior contempt for art music. Mind you, he's not so appalling as Stig Abell, who a couple of weeks ago came out with some terrible, 1970s-style guff about opera being "elitist", how it's all fat sopranos and tenors standing there and bellowing in foreign, etc. etc. The airy prejudice of these people has to be heard to be believed.

Of course, you'd never actually see the likes of Wilson or Abell at a Prom, even the first night (especially as they didn't even have a drinks party in the RAH this year.) When I am Prime Minister - which the way its going we'll all get a shot at sooner or later - I shall take pleasure in sacking the lot of them!

[Bryn]

Listening to Friday night Glagolitic, newly shorn of almost all precipitate applause, I withdraw my negative comment re. the organ solo in the Veruju. I now find it fits well with the gloriously celebratory approach to the work. Annoyingly timed coughs notwithstanding, a keeper.

[makropulos]

Listening to Friday night Glagolitic, newly shorn of almost all precipitate applause, I withdraw my negative comment re. the organ solo in the Veruju. I now find it fits well with the gloriously celebratory approach to the work. Annoyingly timed coughs notwithstanding, a keeper.

Couldn't agree more. I thought it was a hugely enjoyable performance of the Glag. Mass. Not quite so persuaded by the rest of the concert.

[Master Jacques]

Unless I can get away with taking my shooting stick with me (I have been successful in the past). I will be standing in the Arena, also probably somewhere on the cello side.

Excellent, Bryn - if I spot that shooting stick I'll come down to the rope to say hello.

[Brixton Dave]

Waiting with bated breath to see what the BBC engineers have done to the Glagolitic Mass in the radio repeat. I was in the hall on Friday and found the applause between sections annoying - and the lady who emitted an orgasmic whoop because the organ finished a movement on a crescendo (was that at the end of the credo?) rather gross.
This disruptive behaviour from the audience is encouraged by the BBC. "Professor" Tom Service was telling his listeners we need more clapping between movements a few weeks ago in his Radio3 show the Sunday Service. I went to one of Professor Service's Gresham lectures at the Museum of London last year. He was joined on stage by a string quartet, and Tom had them play a very quirky, movement from a Haydn quartet. We in the audience were exhorted to clap whenever the key changed - which was rather enjoyable as a one off.
However I think Tom's idea that we should recreate a audience of boozed up 18th century dilettante aristocrats is not appropriate for the Albert Hall, where 6,000 people have different needs.
Maybe it's time to shift Tom Service to Radio 2 and send him to Glastonbury?

[Frances_iom]

...
Maybe it's time to shift Tom Service to Radio 2 and send him to Glastonbury?

maybe Coventry would be less muddy + better for all ?

[DracoM]

BUT why / how did Mr Service justify this?
I genuinely do NOT see the point. It's so me-me-me.

[kernelbogey]

[...]I went to one of Professor Service's Gresham lectures at the Museum of London last year. He was joined on stage by a string quartet, and Tom had them play a very quirky, movement from a Haydn quartet. We in the audience were exhorted to clap whenever the key changed - which was rather enjoyable as a one off. [...]

Oh I do hope that you all applauded between the paragraphs of his talk (though the way he speaks, it could have been tricky to identify them).

[Petrushka]

Waiting with bated breath to see what the BBC engineers have done to the Glagolitic Mass in the radio repeat. I was in the hall on Friday and found the applause between sections annoying - and the lady who emitted an orgasmic whoop because the organ finished a movement on a crescendo (was that at the end of the credo?) rather gross.

BD, I was in the hall, too, and it was the end of the Gloria that the lady let out an 'orgasmic whoop' not the Credo. The ending of the Gloria was incredibly thrilling and I felt like giving out an orgasmic whoop myself! To have heard that music, possibly for the first time, would be an amazing experience for anyone and the spontaneous reaction at a most thrilling and joyous moment in the work showed it had hit the mark. I think Janacek would have been pleased.

[Bryn]

BD, I was in the hall, too, and it was the end of the Gloria that the lady let out an 'orgasmic whoop' not the Credo. The ending of the Gloria was incredibly thrilling and I felt like giving out an orgasmic whoop myself! To have heard that music, possibly for the first time, would be an amazing experience for anyone and the spontaneous reaction at a most thrilling and joyous moment in the work showed it had hit the mark. I think Janacek would have been pleased.

Also. the whoop was not that precipitate, unlike some of the applause and the at least one re-entry of the orchestra following such applause. The conductor must also accept some responsibility for any interruption of the performance. Modern audio editors make it easy enough to remove applause, etc. as long as it does not actually occur simultaneously with active music-making. However, Radio 3 does not, in genersal, get its editors to make such adjustments prior to broadcasting repeats.

[Master Jacques]

BUT why / how did Mr Service justify this?
I genuinely do NOT see the point

It's absolutely correct historically, and (as I've posted elsewhere) there's plenty of evidence to show that Mozart et al. consciously wrote to evoke such expressions of approval from audiences during the music. Fashions change, and this one may be making a return - which will make performances of Haydn and Mozart that much more authentic.

I remember being shocked on visiting the Kabuki Theatre in Tokyo, to find that audience members not only applauded at the end of scenes, but also during speeches when they found lines were particularly well-delivered, sometimes repeating them or adding their own audible comments. There was constant, verbal interplay between stage and auditorium, and definite "taste leaders" within the audience who set the tone. It was completely alien to current Western fashion, but not dissimilar to how Elizabethan audiences probably responded here, and very exciting indeed - much more involved and involving.

I don't see why the same shouldn't be true for over-stuffy classical music concerts, most of which are terminally comatose on the audience side. I once laughed out loud at something which struck me as funny in a Haydn symphony, and though the lady sitting in front of me gave me a look fit to wither roses, I feel sure Papa H. would have been gratified!

[MrGongGong]

It's absolutely correct historically, and (as I've posted elsewhere) there's plenty of evidence to show that Mozart et al. consciously wrote to evoke such expressions of approval from audiences during the music. Fashions change, and this one may be making a return - which will make performances of Haydn and Mozart that much more authentic.

I remember being shocked on visiting the Kabuki Theatre in Tokyo, to find that audience members not only applauded at the end of scenes, but also during speeches when they found lines were particularly well-delivered, sometimes repeating them or adding their own audible comments. There was constant, verbal interplay between stage and auditorium, and definite "taste leaders" within the audience who set the tone. It was completely alien to current Western fashion, but not dissimilar to how Elizabethan audiences probably responded here, and very exciting indeed - much more involved and involving.

I don't see why the same shouldn't be true for over-stuffy classical music concerts, most of which are terminally comatose on the audience side. I once laughed out loud at something which struck me as funny in a Haydn symphony, and though the lady sitting in front of me gave me a look fit to wither roses, I feel sure Papa H. would have been gratified!

(and AGAIN ) it's NOT 3 hours of Feldman at HCMF

I had a similar experience at the Kabuki in Tokyo where things moved swiftly from a solemn religious ceremony to a football match ... wonderful stuff

[doversoul1]

(and AGAIN: whistle:) it's NOT 3 hours of Feldman at HCMF

I had a similar experience at the Kabuki in Tokyo where things moved swiftly from a solemn religious ceremony to a football match ... wonderful stuff

You have to remember that kabuki is a type of musical theatre. You wouldn’t (normally) see the same audience behaviour at Noh theatre. So, I suppose it’s depends on what you see classical music concerts as.

[MrGongGong]

You have to remember that kabuki is a type of musical theatre. You wouldn’t (normally) see the same audience behaviour at Noh theatre. So, I suppose it’s depends on what you see classical music concerts as.

Indeed
Though i'm not an expert in Japanese theatre I would maybe suggest that The Proms is closer to Kabuki than 3 hours of Schubert at the Wigmore Hall
I don't see (or even hear) all "classical music concerts" as the same... which was the point about HCMF