Prom 1: First Night of the Proms - 19.07.19

[jayne lee wilson]

The Glagolitic Mass is foolproof, and proved so once again last night. The new work was a superficial occasional piece, poorly put together technically and pretentiously dressed up with nowhere to go. The Dvorak was very poorly done, unidiomatic and low-voltage - very sadly, as (almost unbelievably) this turned out to be the first time it's been heard at the Proms. It's a great piece when done properly, and in the context of the four symphonic poems.

I hear from a reliable source that even David Pickard is depressed by the mediocre, populist programming he's been forced into for this year's Proms - apparently his more interesting ideas got stomped on by the suits, who gave instructions that they wanted a robustly mainstream, commercial look to the list. Well, they certainly got their wish.

But at what cost? It's looking like just another middle-brow swank-fest this year, with very little to frighten the horses or excite real enthusiasts. The emphasis is on the tourist trade and people wanting a "sophisticated" night out, culture with drinks and nibbles. Especially given the inflated prices for the foreign orchestras, it's about status now rather than art. Let alone new British music - which it's there to foster and is failing completely.

Points taken, but - Proms 2, 7, 9 and 13 are OK aren't they? Very attractive to me at least. With such reduced government-funding, you still have to make the concerts viable....that's always going to be tricky.

But yes - I recorded Part 2 of Prom 1 via BBC4 to see how it was done.... and the TV Trio were terrible, nothing insightful or fresh, let alone articulate, to offer at all.... but finally it is the music sound and image that matters...

Who might we choose?
I'd go for David Threasher, Rob Cowan, maybe Cullingford... wide knowledge, media-aware.... shame the real critics are so screened out...

[Master Jacques]

In Beethoven's day (and after) weren't individual movements applauded, and even encored?

They certainly were. I think I've made this point before, but Mozart consciously wrote "purple passages" into his symphonies, in order that they'd be applauded and "bravo'd" during the music, let alone applauded and encored at the end of each movement; and he was chuffed when his plans worked (c.f. his letters to his father re. the 'Paris' symphony.)

So applause between movements is actually more traditional (and historically accurate) than the tomb-like silences to which those of us of a certain age are accustomed. The silent, sacred temple thing seems to be an early 20th c. aberration brought in by European conductors working in America, where audiences were previously so noisy and lacking in attention that something had to be done!

[Master Jacques]

Points taken, but - Proms 2, 7, 9 and 13 are OK aren't they? Very attractive to me at least. With such reduced government-funding, you still have to make the concerts viable....that's always going to be tricky.

You spotted four OK concerts out of 75 - I managed to fancy two, plus another I'm attending makes three. It's not as if the high-profile, whizz-bang concerts were somehow subsidising something more artistically adventurous: every concert is loss-making, the star band evenings most of all. Shelling out fortunes to bring over fancy bands from abroad is not the way to go in these cash-strapped times: the BBC ought to be in the business of fostering native music-making, whether we're talking about performers - or (especially) composers.

This isn't a case of insularity, certainly not - but the duty of passing the torch on to the next generation, which is what the BBC is for. International stars are a good part of the mix, but their appearances need to be special events rather than the perceived norm, so that they mean something when they do come along. The VPO doing the New World Symphony in London is not something the BBC ought to be paying for: send them to Newcastle or Cardiff if you want to give the country a better bang for its buck, and do something more worth while.

[Anastasius]

Virgin TV box plugged into a Denon 5.1 receiver via HDMI.

Thanks, Steve

Is this 5.1 exclusive to Virgin TV ?

I don't really know much about this TBH. Is the 5.1 broadcast by the BBCor does the Denon 'create' it from the stereo broadcast ?

[Anastasius]

Yes. I detest it. And too much applause in opera. Especially from the Met audience. I dipped briefly in to the 'commission' and just as briefly dipped out. This new stuff does nothing for me. Too plinky-plonk that goes nowhere. I have recorded the TV programme of the Mass and so have that to look forward to.

Incidentally, the Supraphon recording was voted the best IIRC in Building a Library.

Which version of the Mass was it tonight ?

I listened to the R3 broadcast on Sounds and TBH thought the Glagolitic was a bit lacklustre for me. The applause did it for me as well. If it carries on throughout the season then it's CDs for me. And as for the stupid woman who let out a whoop at the first outbreak of hand flapping...words fail me that someone can be so obtuse.

[pastoralguy]

I listened to the R3 broadcast on Sounds and TBH thought the Glagolitic was a bit lacklustre for me. The applause did it for me as well. If it carries on throughout the season then it's CDs for me. And as for the stupid woman who let out a whoop at the first outbreak of hand flapping...words fail me that someone can be so obtuse.

I do wonder if these people listen again on BBC Sounds and say 'that's me!'

[Anastasius]

I do wonder if these people listen again on BBC Sounds and say 'that's me!'

I expect she tweeted to all her little friends..."Listen out for the numbnuts whooping. That was me".

[Darkbloom]

You spotted four OK concerts out of 75 - I managed to fancy two, plus another I'm attending makes three. It's not as if the high-profile, whizz-bang concerts were somehow subsidising something more artistically adventurous: every concert is loss-making, the star band evenings most of all. Shelling out fortunes to bring over fancy bands from abroad is not the way to go in these cash-strapped times: the BBC ought to be in the business of fostering native music-making, whether we're talking about performers - or (especially) composers.

This isn't a case of insularity, certainly not - but the duty of passing the torch on to the next generation, which is what the BBC is for. International stars are a good part of the mix, but their appearances need to be special events rather than the perceived norm, so that they mean something when they do come along. The VPO doing the New World Symphony in London is not something the BBC ought to be paying for: send them to Newcastle or Cardiff if you want to give the country a better bang for its buck, and do something more worth while.

I've started to find the big name orchestras much less appealing than they used to be. When you're just another date on a lengthy tour some of the performances can sound distinctly routine. The VPO are often guilty of this in my experience, although the BRSO usually show up and give their best. The last two weeks of the season are often filled with these kinds of high-profile but unimaginative concerts.

[jayne lee wilson]

You spotted four OK concerts out of 75 - I managed to fancy two, plus another I'm attending makes three. It's not as if the high-profile, whizz-bang concerts were somehow subsidising something more artistically adventurous: every concert is loss-making, the star band evenings most of all. Shelling out fortunes to bring over fancy bands from abroad is not the way to go in these cash-strapped times: the BBC ought to be in the business of fostering native music-making, whether we're talking about performers - or (especially) composers.

This isn't a case of insularity, certainly not - but the duty of passing the torch on to the next generation, which is what the BBC is for. International stars are a good part of the mix, but their appearances need to be special events rather than the perceived norm, so that they mean something when they do come along. The VPO doing the New World Symphony in London is not something the BBC ought to be paying for: send them to Newcastle or Cardiff if you want to give the country a better bang for its buck, and do something more worth while.

Whoa there...!...
..I merely mentioned the ones that attract me most in the first week or so.... there are plenty of others I'll be attending, in whole or in part, here in the Home Concert Hall... too many to list here...

Your concept of "native music making" does sound oddly insular... .... it would need a revolution really on many media and artistic levels... who is going to conceive it, inspire it, foster it.... support it...? Not sure I would....the Proms have to be international for me, and the VPO in routine rep is too easy a target...

Anyway as for "fancy bands"...... those Bambergers are sounding more than OK right now..in a non-hackneyed Dvorak piece.... I'm off to pay proper attention...

[Stunsworth]

Is this 5.1 exclusive to Virgin TV ?

I don't really know much about this TBH. Is the 5.1 broadcast by the BBCor does the Denon 'create' it from the stereo broadcast ?

I doubt that it’s a Virgin exclusive, I’d expect the 5.1 signal to be present on the HD broadcast. The 5.1 is broadcast by the BBC, it’s not something manufactured by the amp.

[Ein Heldenleben]

If the applause during the Glagolitic mass was a spontaneous outpouring of religious fervour I would have thought God would have been pleased (and perhaps a little surprised...)

[Bella Kemp]

Any reader of 19th century novels will be familiar with those characters who pop into concerts at any time during performances, chat with their friends, check out who else is there from 'society', give some applause and then dash off before the end. Silence in concerts may not be traditional, but when one wants to listen to something without distraction surely one should be allowed to do so. When listening to music one is often following a thread, a musical narrative. Applause between movements can disrupt this. Sometimes, however, it may be appropriate following a brilliant cadenza or a musical movement so full of excitement one cannot but fail to cheer - but I get the impression these days that people applaud simply to break up the boredom because they have lost the ability to concentrate in this age of facebook and obsessive phone scrolling.

[DracoM]

I can genuinely foresee the time when some of the more 'traditional' concert goers will find the Proms de rigeur clapping between movements as tiresome, show-off, and silly enough to deter them from attending and maybe even from listening on air.

AND that the RAH custom for the newbies to the scene will be what you do at such a concert.

In which case, they are going to be embarrassed and surprised if they attend elsewhere and do the RAH thing.

[makropulos]

The Glagolitic Mass is foolproof, and proved so once again last night.

It understandably goes down a storm with audiences, but I'm not sure about foolproof: it's famously accident-prone in live performances. Among other things I've witnessed in what were otherwise fine performances (both at the RFH), I've heard the trumpets getting hopelessly lost in the last movement and the timpanist coming horribly adrift in the same movement. And that's without even starting on the antics of some vocal soloists, or wayward brass playing.

I've just watched the First Night performance and I must say I was impressed –and uplifted too.

[makropulos]

Their introduction to the Janacek was garbage. No mention of the use of the Critical Editon of the revised version, nor of Belohlavek's 2011 Proms performance use of the companion critical edition of the original version, with its more complicated polyrhythms, was beyond the simple 2 against 3 demonstrated. And this useless trio get paid for such garbage.

Oh dear yes - the introductory chat was really abysmal. Thank God the performance itself was quite the opposite –pretty stunning for the most part. On a nitpicking point, from what I could see, the parts they were using were the corrected Universal Edition material of the revised version rather than the Bärenreiter critical edition of it (though in terms of the sound it makes, this amounts to the same thing, of course).