Prom 12: National Youth Orchestra of Great Britain - 27.07.19

[antongould]

Private schools educated people are hugely and unfairly over- represented in almost all prestigious and lucrative areas of employment, public life, and higher education ......

...... don’t forget cricket ts .... if you’d gone to Eton you would have won the Ashes for us ......

[jonfan]

Private schools educated people are hugely and unfairly over- represented in almost all prestigious and lucrative areas of employment, public life, and higher education.

Some music colleges are still among the worst offenders.

Perhaps you should address this actual situation in your remarks , instead of making an attack on a forum member which is unsupported by any evidence.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, by the way, in case you are wondering.

Whoa, I’m using post #13 as evidence. Granted privately educated are over represented in many walks of public life, notably the new Cabinet. Do you have evidence that some music colleges are the worst offenders?

[doversoul1]

Oh I think there was a huge one if you look at the post at #13. Perhaps he actually wasn’t up to the required standard.
A pity if pastoralg missed this NYOGB prom on principle as it was a cracker, especially the Prokofiev. Great to see a wonderful mix of ethnicity and gender, even a male harpist. Tom Service I’ve warmed to over the years and he just expresses the excitement of the occasion which you can see and hear. Jess Gilliam is getting better and seemed more relaxed and enjoying presenting especially when talking to NB.

If pastoralguy were telling others not to listen to the NYO because of his experience, then there would be something to argue about but as he is not, is it anyone's business to persuade him to change his mind? Missing a prom is really neither here nor there.

[teamsaint]

...... don’t forget cricket ts .... if you’d gone to Eton you would have won the Ashes for us ......

Yes, I suppose lively but skiddy medium pacers have found their time and place in the modern game........

[teamsaint]

Whoa, I’m using post #13 as evidence. Granted privately educated are over represented in many walks of public life, notably the new Cabinet. Do you have evidence that some music colleges are the worst offenders?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38842482

RAM had the lowest proportion of state school entrants of any university in 2017.

[Constantbee]

The facilities and staff provided for music education in private schools, most state schools can only dream about.

Facilities maybe, staff maybe not Being able to take your piano exams on the same Steinway you’ve been having lessons on gives you an enormous advantage, for example. Even getting your hands on a harpsichord must be worth sending Mum out to take a few hours extra cleaning every week to be able to afford the lessons. I’ve met a few public school arts teachers over the years I wouldn’t say were as gifted as some of those we had at a state comprehensive in the 70’s, and from whose guidance I’m please to say I’m still learning

[PhilipT]

I still resent the way I was treated by a pair of ghastly upper middle class interviewers at Oxford in 1984 ..

They would have been dons, and your prospective tutors. I recommend writing 500 words on "Is it reasonable to expect academia not to be an upper middle class profession?".

If I'd been advising you on your interview technique, I'd've suggested that "I'm looking forward to the challenge!" might've been a better answer to their question.

[jonfan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38842482

RAM had the lowest proportion of state school entrants of any university in 2017.

Thanks for the link. RAM seem to be addressing the problem vigorously see ‘RAM Access and Participation Plan 2019-20’.

[MrGongGong]

Facilities maybe, staff maybe not

Many schools don't do music AT ALL

I do think that if "we" really belive that music is important then we should all be doing whatever we can to create opportunities for ALL young people to have access to it.
This means that for ensembles, orchestras, schools, festivals AND individual musicians/teacher there should be ways of making it possible for those youngsters who happen to go to schools with NO music to participate. It simply isn't good enough IMV for people to have a "not my job guv" attitude which, sadly, is often present in many people involved in music education.

It really does come down to doing things rather than thinking that lobbying politicians will have any effect at all.

[Barbirollians]

They would have been dons, and your prospective tutors. I recommend writing 500 words on "Is it reasonable to expect academia not to be an upper middle class profession?".

If I'd been advising you on your interview technique, I'd've suggested that "I'm looking forward to the challenge!" might've been a better answer to their question.

They were sneering and snotty almost Kingsley Amis caricatures - no doubt had I not gone to a bog standard Essex comp I would have been intensively coached in how to deal with them .

[jonfan]

They were sneering and snotty almost Kingsley Amis caricatures - no doubt had I not gone to a bog standard Essex comp I would have been intensively coached in how to deal with them .

I went to a Secondary Modern which must be even lower than a bog standard comprehensive. Must be quagmire standard?

[Bryn]

I went to a Secondary Modern which must be even lower than a bog standard comprehensive. Must be quagmire standard?

My mother taught history of art at a secondary modern in the late '50s and early '60s as head of department. She argued for, and got, a small sixth-form cohort, several of whom gained admission to universities to continue their fine arts interests at degree level. Not at Oxbridge colleges, admitedly, but attending a secondary modern need not have been a total block regarding higher education.

[jonfan]

My mother taught history of art at a secondary modern in the late '50s and early '60s as head of department. She argued for, and got, a small sixth-form cohort, several of whom gained admission to universities to continue their fine arts interests at degree level. Not at Oxbridge colleges, admitedly, but attending a secondary modern need not have been a total block regarding higher education.

True, it didn’t close doors for me, it just took me longer to get there. Wonderful persistent work from your mother, I’m sure she found it as equally rewarding as working in a grammar school.

[MrGongGong]

but attending a secondary modern need not have been a total block regarding higher education.

I "passed" the 11+
as did Andy McCluskey
but poor little Daniel "failed"

He got to be James bond though

[PhilipT]

They were sneering and snotty almost Kingsley Amis caricatures - no doubt had I not gone to a bog standard Essex comp I would have been intensively coached in how to deal with them .

I went to a Welsh comp. It's not for me to say what standard it was, but if I say that I got as many grade A's at A-level as the rest of my year put together you may form an impression. I wasn't intensively coached, and I got in.