Prom 12: National Youth Orchestra of Great Britain - 27.07.19

[jonfan]

Anyway, by the time I got to 18 I was playing in REAL orchestras...

It seems you have a gigantic chip on your shoulder that you were turned down 40 years ago but I'm glad you overcame that setback. It’s hard, I know, to cope with rejection when there are limited places. I suggest you have a close listen to what NYO is doing now. If you came across their prom without knowing who the performers were I’m sure you would think it was a professional group and that it’s a REAL orchestra (not sure what you mean by that but it seems rather insulting).I suggest you have a listen to the Chandos CD of the Planets and Also Sprach made in 2016 which can stand comparison with a highly competitive field. I haven’t heard this year’s concert so looking forward to BBC FOUR tonight.

[Zucchini]

Back to music, 5 Star Review for tomorrow's Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/jul/28/prom-12-nyo-nicola-benedetti-wigglesworth-review-glowing-strings-and-a-touch-of-marsalis

And lots of Stars from Seen and Heard if they did Stars:
[https://www.seenandheard-internation...efficient-nyo/]
I might watch the TV. Hope Katie's there.

[Sir Velo]

I might watch the TV. Hope Katie's there.

Don't worry. She's there, gushing for Britain.

[Richard Tarleton]

Don't worry. She's there, gushing for Britain.

It was Tom Service and Jess Gillam, OTT the pair of them but better than KD at any rate. Mrs Service a mate of Ms Benedetti's

But a cracking concert I thought. And Nicola B is a class act.

[Edgy 2]

It was Tom Service and Jess Gillam, OTT the pair of them but better than KD at any rate. Mrs Service a mate of Ms Benedetti's

But a cracking concert I thought. And Nicola B is a class act.

Indeed.

The presentation is really spoiling the tv broadcasts for me.
Tom Service was speaking so quickly that I couldn't actually make out what he was saying some of the time.

[makropulos]

But a cracking concert I thought. And Nicola B is a class act.

Yes on both counts! And Wigglesworth seems to get better and better too. Among many highlights, the 'Fight' in R&J was astonishing –hardly anybody even attempts it at Prokofiev's metronome marking (only Maazel on recordings I've heard) and the NYO absolutely blazed through it. Wonderful stuff.

[Barbirollians]

Most impressed by the Prokofiev . I missed the first half of the concert save for the Marsalis encore which I thought was pretty dire.

[Barbirollians]

It seems you have a gigantic chip on your shoulder that you were turned down 40 years ago but I'm glad you overcame that setback. It’s hard, I know, to cope with rejection when there are limited places. I suggest you have a close listen to what NYO is doing now. If you came across their prom without knowing who the performers were I’m sure you would think it was a professional group and that it’s a REAL orchestra (not sure what you mean by that but it seems rather insulting).I suggest you have a listen to the Chandos CD of the Planets and Also Sprach made in 2016 which can stand comparison with a highly competitive field. I haven’t heard this year’s concert so looking forward to BBC FOUR tonight.

I don’t see that resenting class based prejudice and discrimination is having a chip on one’s shoulder especially when it happened at a young age. I still resent the way I was treated by a pair of ghastly upper middle class interviewers at Oxford in 1984 when they asked me did I not think the fact I had not done Latin at my comprehensive would make it difficult for me to deal with classical references in literature - my answer that how could I possibly know may not have gone down well . Though I was surprised to then receive a letter encouraging me to do the entrance exam on the basis I had shown promise ! Fortunately, I had by the time of receipt of that letter received an offer from another university which I was delighted to accept.

[Bryn]

I don’t see that resenting class based prejudice and discrimination is having a chip on one’s shoulder especially when it happened at a young age. I still resent the way I was treated by a pair of ghastly upper middle class interviewers at Oxford in 1984 when they asked me did I not think the fact I had not done Latin at my comprehensive would make it difficult for me to deal with classical references in literature - my answer that how could I possibly know may not have gone down well . Though I was surprised to then receive a letter encouraging me to do the entrance exam on the basis I had shown promise ! Fortunately, I had by the time of receipt of that letter received an offer from another university which I was delighted to accept.

Curious. When I was at Commonweal Grammar School in Swindon in the early 1960s, they dropped Latin and Greek from the curriculum in favour of "Use of English", which, we were informed, was the result of Oxbridge dropping their requirement for the former in favour of the latter. However, my family moved from Swindon to Bracknell a year prior to my 'O' Levels, so I am unable to report on what impact the change may have made on the proportion of pupils gaining entry to Oxbridge.

[vibratoforever]

Aside from agreeing with some of the very fair points made about the demographic of the NYOGB, I've got to say that I loved pretty much every minute of what I heard tonight. I missed the new piece but the Tchaik and Prokofiev had so many of the best features of the NYO –tremendous verve and enthusiasm, absolute commitment and some really vibrant playing. I can't wait to hear it all again on the telly tomorrow night. Benedetti at her high-risk best, and I thought Wigglesworth (of whom I am by no means a constant fan) did a phenomenal job bringing the best out of his young players. It's always inspiring to hear this orchestra when they're on top form.

It would be a massive surprise given everything that has happened in state schools since I retired from teaching ten years ago if the demographics were not still so slanted. Arts teaching (and languages) has been decimated. All of which such discussions , along with the carping about individual experiences, must not be allowed to divert attention from what was an inspirational concert, as Makropulos has said.

The Prokofiev in particular was an uplifting watch on BBC4. NB made mention in her comments about some of the individuals, such as the woodwind principals. But I was equally struck by the sound MW got from the string sections. The final minutes were very moving, and for me the highlight of Proms 2019 so far.

[Richard Tarleton]

Curious. When I was at Commonweal Grammar School in Swindon in the early 1960s, they dropped Latin and Greek from the curriculum in favour of "Use of English", which, we were informed, was the result of Oxbridge dropping their requirement for the former in favour of the latter.

It may have depended what you were intending to read (or "study", as they say on University Challenge these days when introducing themselves). You had to have Latin (and French) to study History (late 60's), not least because the first term's course - Prelims - included reading (and being examined on) Bede in Latin. There was also a Latin unseen. My landlord for my last 2 years, a history don, was a marker for a while: one year, the unseen was a passage that revolved around the word mulier, which a large number of candidates translated as "mule", altering the sense in an unfortunate way. He wanted to fail them all, but it was decided to make allowances.

[jonfan]

I don’t see that resenting class based prejudice and discrimination is having a chip on one’s shoulder especially when it happened at a young age.

Oh I think there was a huge one if you look at the post at #13. Perhaps he actually wasn’t up to the required standard.
A pity if pastoralg missed this NYOGB prom on principle as it was a cracker, especially the Prokofiev. Great to see a wonderful mix of ethnicity and gender, even a male harpist. Tom Service I’ve warmed to over the years and he just expresses the excitement of the occasion which you can see and hear. Jess Gilliam is getting better and seemed more relaxed and enjoying presenting especially when talking to NB.

[teamsaint]

Oh I think there was a huge one if you look at the post at #13. Perhaps he actually wasn’t up to the required standard.

Private schools educated people are hugely and unfairly over- represented in almost all prestigious and lucrative areas of employment, public life, and higher education.

Some music colleges are still among the worst offenders.

Perhaps you should address this actual situation in your remarks , instead of making an attack on a forum member which is unsupported by any evidence.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, by the way, in case you are wondering.

[cloughie]

Private schools educated people are hugely and unfairly over- represented in almost all prestigious and lucrative areas of employment, public life, and higher education.

Some music colleges are still among the worst offenders.

The facilities and staff provided for music education in private schools, most state schools can only dream about.

[Once Was 4]

Private schools educated people are hugely and unfairly over- represented in almost all prestigious and lucrative areas of employment, public life, and higher education.

Some music colleges are still among the worst offenders.

Perhaps you should address this actual situation in your remarks , instead of making an attack on a forum member which is unsupported by any evidence.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, by the way, in case you are wondering.

As I have admitted before, I DO have a chip on my shoulder about prestige youth orchestras; it's not their fault though - it's the fault of commentators who compare hard working professional orchestras unfavourably with them (I will go into the reasons again if anybody is interested)


A few years ago there was a move by musical educationalists with left-wing views to get control of the NYO to ensure state educated children were better represented and also that the tutors be from teaching, rather than performance, backgrounds. This latter was nonsense of course; I am aware that the tutors that are used are both great performers and great coaches (which is not the same as teachers).

They tried to lobby the Musicians Union (who, in my area at least were not interested although I cannot speak for the union nationally) and other organisations which, frankly, had far more sense than to get involved.

For the record, I went to an old fashioned STATE grammar school which was anything but bog-standard.