Prom 13: ‘From the Canyons to the Stars …’ - 28.07.19

[Richard Barrett]

I take it you are well aware that my tongue was securely cleft to my cheek when replying to the Don.

Of course!

[DracoM]

Amazing ! First time I've ever heard it all. The staggering virtuosity required of the four soloists!!
Oddly - and I know nothing - but I felt I'd like it ot have lingered a bit more?

And nearly wrecked by the great clumping, clumsy pack of baggage concerning trails, puffs, encouragements to hear this, access that, replay the other by the presenter. Blimey!

Let the music speak, NOT the BBC's desperation to grab customers.

[LeMartinPecheur]

This for me was a brilliant discovery, the experience improved by recent migration from FM to internet radio via a brief dab of DAB May have to buy a CD!

[edashtav]

Messaien: Des Canyons Aux Étoiles

I first heard this exotic (did he ever compose anything else after his early Theme and Variations?) 'suite' by Messaien played by the fabulous London Sinfonietta in the rather sterile acoustics of the RFH, so… full marks to the forgiving RAH! Its built-in sustaining pedal allows dying echoes to linger and that added a deal of awe and wonder to tonight's relaxed, confident performance by the BBC SO under its chief conductor, Sakari Oramo.

Messaien always possessed a strange ability to amalgamate banality with passages of rare beauty and complexity. Nothing was too trite or too complex for him. No other composer causes my emotions to roller-coaster as much as he does: awe, wonder, irritation and anger follow each other in quick succession.

All four soloists were superb in this tremendous, compelling performance. Nicolas Hodges was supreme as was Martin Owen but the colour and vitality contributed by David Hockings and Alex Neal were superlative, also. I was surprised that the performance was shorter than others that I have I heard despite the invitation to luxuriate that the RAH affords.

This is a Festival Piece and just the stuff that makes the Proms rock.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oddly - and I know nothing - but I felt I'd like it ot have lingered a bit more?

Certainly the Horn solo movement needed more time - given that Messiaen once told a horn player (who had sent him a recording of his playing it in the Grand Canyon) that whilst the playing was fine, the tempo was rushed, and the spaces needed to be left empty for longer "It's an Interstellar Call - give them time to reply!"

A performance that I felt drew me closer to the work, whilst still having so much material that I got impatient with - every time something grabbed my attention (and there are many such times in this work, and in this performance) those wretched birds came piddleyTom piddleyTom piddleyTom, chinchinchinchinchinchinchin - and then the soft-focus Gershwin chords, molto vibrato ...

Broadcast sound was very fine indeed - those piano resonances! And special praise to Nic Hodges, as ever.

[Joseph K]

I enjoyed this work - there are quite a few beautiful moments. However, I feel some of the various elements of which it consists can be found better done and more focused in works like Oiseaux Exotiques, Chronochromie, Couleurs de la Cité celeste, Et exspecto etc. Here they seemed to appear as if in boxes or separate compartments at times... I guess the mosaic seemed a bit thin.

[teamsaint]

Lovely sound on boring old FM. I felt the whole thing was just nicely understated,which kept one actively listening, and it all flowed pretty well.
I'll try to listen again to the horn solo movement with Ferney's comments in mind.

My one live experience of this was the one at the Barbican with Dudamel ,with the photography backdrop.Although I know that approach got some flak, the Proms ( if not possibly the RAH)would have been the perfect place for that kind of experiment .
Not sure the wind machine that convinces me, or even doesn't irritate me, has been invented. Poetic licence and some tapes surely worth a try ? Not that I want to see the wind machine guys out of a job, obviously.

Really enjoyable prom.

[Richard Barrett]

those wretched birds

I see that Messiaen's not going to get very far with you then!

I thought it was a pretty good performance, very well played by everyone, although often a bit on the fast side for my liking, and sometimes (as in the "Les Ressucités" movement) a bit too matter-of-fact - for obvious reasons it needs to have the feeling of wide open spaces, while at the same time being sharp and precise in its many subtle details, and there was for me more of the latter than the former. For example the wind machine should draw you into its own particular sound as a musical instrument, rather than coming across as a "sound effect", and this requires time and musical "space". For all that it still struck me as the piece that most beautifully encapsulates the unique attraction of Messiaen's music for this listener.

[Bryn]

I see that Messiaen's not going to get very far with you then!

I thought it was a pretty good performance, very well played by everyone, although often a bit on the fast side for my liking, and sometimes (as in the "Les Ressucités" movement) a bit too matter-of-fact - for obvious reasons it needs to have the feeling of wide open spaces, while at the same time being sharp and precise in its many subtle details, and there was for me more of the latter than the former. For example the wind machine should draw you into its own particular sound as a musical instrument, rather than coming across as a "sound effect", and this requires time and musical "space". For all that it still struck me as the piece that most beautifully encapsulates the unique attraction of Messiaen's music for this listener.

I don't have access to the score but find it hard to believe that Messiaen wanted the wind machine and geophone to sound live someone was struggling to turn a handle to operate them.

Martin Owens's performance of the Interstellar Call was rather theatrical. I wondered whether he might have been unfamiliar with its origin. Perhaps he thought Jean-Pierre Guézec deserved an ironic wake?

[makropulos]

For all that it still struck me as the piece that most beautifully encapsulates the unique attraction of Messiaen's music for this listener.

I completely agree. Along with La Transfiguration, Des Canyons is one of the Messiaen works I love above all others. Oramo's performance of Turangalîla last year was distinctly scrappy so my expectations for tonight were not particularly high. On the whole it was decent, though there was some rather approximate wind and brass tuning in places. The problem –if it is a problem –is that Oramo doesn't seem fired up by the visionary qualities in the music and is reluctant to give them time to speak. As you say, some of it was on the fast side, if not actually rushed. He's not the only one –Salonen is perfunctory in places and to my mind Eschenbach didn't really get it at all (a performance that was published on CD). On records, Marius Constant and Reinbert de Leeuw are the two who capture its extrarordinary mood best for me (Chung also very good), and de Leeuw also has superbly refined playing. I've loved Canyons ever since hearing the RPS/BBC concert in which Boulez conducted the UK premiere at the Festival Hall, and of course it was good to hear it again tonight, even if there have been more emotionally engaging performances.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't have access to the score

From what I can see, it's published in two volumes, the First about £70, the Second, "Hire Only".

So this might be useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBRTJMKyvV0

[Richard Barrett]

The problem –if it is a problem –is that Oramo doesn't seem fired up by the visionary qualities in the music and is reluctant to give them time to speak. As you say, some of it was on the fast side, if not actually rushed. He's not the only one –Salonen is perfunctory in places and to my mind Eschenbach didn't really get it at all (a performance that was published on CD).

I agree about all three. I had high hopes for the Salonen recording when it came out (the first to appear on CD) and it seemed that nobody involved had cottoned on to the idea that you have to play this music as if you believe in it, or preferably because you believe in it. Then the timing (to name only this) falls into place.

[Bryn]

From what I can see, it's published in two volumes, the First about £70, the Second, "Hire Only".

So this might be useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBRTJMKyvV0

Many thanks. The squiggles for the first entry of the wind machine do hint at how a laboured performance of the part might come about.

See also: https://issuu.com/scoresondemand/doc...ns_vol_1_51246

[Bryn]

Anyone here know the 'live' Gilbert recording?

[Master Jacques]

All four soloists were superb in this tremendous, compelling performance. Nicolas Hodges was supreme as was Martin Owen but the colour and vitality contributed by David Hockings and Alex Neal were superlative, also. I was surprised that the performance was shorter than others that I have I heard despite the invitation to luxuriate that the RAH affords.

This is a Festival Piece and just the stuff that makes the Proms rock.

Yes, it was a pleasure and a privilege to be hearing this (from the side stalls). The colours, textures and thematic web proved mesmerising, the work itself - remarkably - managing to be profound and visionary without pretentiousness (that's where those birds help, I think!) and the BBC SO performance was extraordinarily focused and precise, without lacking anything in individual expressiveness.

I am a little surprised that some experienced listeners found it to be on the fast side, or somehow lacking "belief" from the conductor. It didn't hang around; but from where I was sitting, Oramo's involvement and delight in the music was abundantly clear, as was his admiration for the virtuosity of his orchestra: there was a deeply collaborative sense about this performance which was part of the pleasure. And there was certainly plenty of time allowed for sound to resonate off into silence.

In particular, the horn solo "interstellar calls" movement had a mesmerising urgency in the hall - as if Martin Owen (very physically mobile in his delivery) was offering an impatient challenge to a faceless universe on behalf of mankind. This was movingly tragic in context. There is more than one way of getting the work across, and Oramo's more pressing approach lent Messiaen's music a coherence which it has sometimes seemed to lack (for me) on CD.

I was struck by the unusually quiet absorption of the audience - no inter-movement applause or whooping here! - and the genuine warmth of the ovation at the end. To my mind it was well deserved, for a Prom which those of us lucky enough to attend won't be forgetting in a hurry.