Prom 21: Olivier Latry - 4.08.19

[Constantbee]

Maybe you're right about the transcriptions, but presumably some, like the Liszt, are regarded as standards in the repertoire, aren't they? Latry is certainly regarded with a lot of affection round these parts since his performance on the newly restored organ at Ripon one icy night in February 2014. I can’t honestly remember what was on the programme that night but his improvisation in what I now know is the great French tradition certainly still stands out: a rousing version of On Ilkley Moor Bar Tat, that needless to say went down very well with the locals

[Master Jacques]

You have made this allegation before, MJ - how do you know this? (Genuine question - I'm sure Forumistas would be fascinaed to know.)

A perfectly valid question - but if you are referring to my statement that the suits have dumbed down the programme originally presented to them by David Pickard, sadly I have to protect my sources! I can only assure you that my insider on this has impeccable credentials; and that of course the Proms director's 1st draft has always been subjected to checks and balances from above, even in the palmy Glock days, so it's hardly a surprise.

The remainder reflects the practical realities of concert-giving - not just here in Britain, but around the world. There will be one or two exceptions (e.g. "before we go much further, we'd better settle with Sir Simon what he'd like to do in his LSO concert, given what we've already got slated for the VPO etc.") but the amount of repertoire actually chosen by the artists themselves is small, whether at the Proms or elsewhere. I was intrigued to come across (in a recent Gramophone) what Bernard Haitink really thought of Mahler, which he had no option but to perform, for non-musical reasons; and it didn't make comfortable reading.

For example, if you look at the limited (relatively popular) Spanish rep. Juanjo Mena was allowed to programme in Manchester, compared with the wide-ranging, diverse Spanish music (e.g. by Guridi) he regularly performs in Madrid, you'll see how constrained he was by his BBC PO programmers. Understandably so, but sadly I think. We missed out on some revelatory repertoire: what's the point of bringing in international conductors and not letting them play to their strengths?

At least they couldn't stop Latry kicking over the traces in his superb encore - the improvisation on themes from Berlioz. I'm glad that I hung around for that one.

[oddoneout]

The difference is perhaps semantic: "asked" by your potential employer means the engagement is conditional on doing what you are told. It remains one of the strangest myths, that performers somehow have carte blanche to choose their own repertoire. In the case of the proms, the first things to be put in place are the starry orchestras doing their world tours of (generally) safe repertoire, then the programming is devised around that, after which it is dumbed down a bit by the suit committees - and only then do they get around to thinking who's going to be asked to do what.

In this case, the scenario would certainly have been: "it would be nice to have a light Sunday morning prom devoted to popular organ transcriptions. Now who might we ask? I know! Oliver Latry doesn't have Sunday duties at Notre Dame right now, and he might be glad to come along and publicise what's going on there on the BBC and play a few pops. Done deal".

The R4 morning news appearance was undoubtedly part of the deal. I doubt much of the programming was (though he did squeeze in Guillou's intriguing "syncretic" rewrite of the Liszt - where I thought his playing bucked up considerably.)

His engagement for the Proms would surely have predated the fire by some months - April is leaving it a bit late to ask? The R4 interview wouldn't have needed the same lead time, and it would arguably have been a bit odd not to have done something of the kind.

[oddoneout]

At least they couldn't stop Latry kicking over the traces in his superb encore - the improvisation on themes from Berlioz. I'm glad that I hung around for that one.

What about the second encore ?

[Master Jacques]

The purported "suits" conversation re. Latry having his Sundays off was a feeble attempt at humour, not in the best of taste, for which I apologise. I know really that he has deputies and much freedom to pursue extramural engagements.

As for the second encore, I've not heard that OTT Boëllmann Toccata for decades. In my long-departed days as a church chorister there was a strange vogue for having it at weddings: it always made us boys imagine that monsters were coming to eat the bride and groom, and I can never hear it without a smile. The audience seemed to enjoy it, too.

[oddoneout]

The purported "suits" conversation re. Latry having his Sundays off was a feeble attempt at humour, not in the best of taste, for which I apologise. I know really that he has deputies and much freedom to pursue extramural engagements.

As for the second encore, I've not heard that OTT Boëllmann Toccata for decades. In my long-departed days as a church chorister there was a strange vogue for having it at weddings: it always made us boys imagine that monsters were coming to eat the bride and groom, and I can never hear it without a smile. The audience seemed to enjoy it, too.

It makes me smile too; I have a CD of Jennifer Bate playing it at Beauvais Cathedral. I like this from the sleeve notes "...he remains best known for this Suite Gothique for organ, which is about as Gothic as the Albert Memorial.."

[ANON]

force him to do a programme of popular classic transcriptions worthy of Blackpool Tower. This is just awful.

Never read such a load of tosh in a long time.

How were you listening to this concert?

[Pulcinella]

I'm afraid that I have an intrinsic dislike in general of transcriptions/arrangements/adaptations (though accepting that at one stage they might have been the only way orchestral music got promoted/heard).
It seems such a shame when there is so much good music actually written for the organ, too.

It's happening in other spheres too.
The York Theatre Royal July 2019 to March 2020 season brochure heralds:
Swallows and Amazons (adaptation; admittedly our neighbours' grandchildren thoroughly enjoyed it)
Hetty Feather (adaptation)
The Night Watch (adaptation)
Malory Towers (adaptation)
Reasons to stay alive (imagined [sic] for the stage)
The woman in black (adaptation)
Alone in Berlin (adaptation)
amongst its offerings.

Oh, we do get Arthur Miller's A view from the bridge.

[MrGongGong]

I'm afraid that I have an intrinsic dislike in general of transcriptions/arrangements/adaptations (though accepting that at one stage they might have been the only way orchestral music got promoted/heard).
It seems such a shame when there is so much good music actually written for the organ, too.

It's happening in other spheres too.
The York Theatre Royal July 2019 to March 2020 season brochure heralds:
Swallows and Amazons (adaptation; admittedly our neighbours' grandchildren thoroughly enjoyed it)
Hetty Feather (adaptation)
The Night Watch (adaptation)
Malory Towers (adaptation)
Reasons to stay alive (imagined [sic] for the stage)
The woman in black (adaptation)
Alone in Berlin (adaptation)
amongst its offerings.

Oh, we do get Arthur Miller's A view from the bridge.

I know it's awful isn't it

Macbeth : Verdi (adaptation)
Romeo and Juliet: everyone you can think of (adaptation)
and so on and so on and so on


(you would be most welcome in the PCME Facebook group )

[Pulcinella]

I know it's awful isn't it

Macbeth : Verdi (adaptation)
Romeo and Juliet: everyone you can think of (adaptation)
and so on and so on and so on


(you would be most welcome in the PCME Facebook group )

I don't do Facebook, and Google was singularly unhelpful about PCME.


And I think there's a difference between opera/ballet 'adaptations' (if that's how you see them) and abandoning traditional drama in the theatre.
But if it draws in the punters.....

[Master Jacques]

Never read such a load of tosh in a long time.

How were you listening to this concert?

Carefully, at home, in good sound. And to go a little further, I've actually heard the Khachaturian at Blackpool Tower - better played than it was yesterday. The Falla was notably poor, too - rhythmically all over the place and muddy in registers. The Liszt/Guillou syncretic adaptation was disappointing. Matters improved greatly with the encores. Thank you for the vote of confidence!

[ANON]

Carefully, at home, in good sound. .........muddy in registers.

Hearing something LIVE, and reproduced (you admit you heard a piece in Blackpool live...)can be chalk and cheese if you don't have a rig up to it.

I was astonished to see he clearly was using 64' and 32' stops in a lot of the pieces, with obviously some serious gymnastics going on down there in places.
(I did check the pipe inventory to be sure!).

To be fair, you have to be aware a Willis based Organ has very little in common with the Cavaille-Coll monsters he plays more normally.
It's a bit like a pilot jumping from a Boeing into an Airbus, so you have to admire the sheer virtuosity of the man.

As my system is actually capable of reproducing the subsonic notes, I was very suprised to see content in the 11hz-20hz zone.
If you don't hear that stuff, yes what you heard will be lacklustre and sound bland.

1.7million quid later I wouldn't expect less than the fantastic experience we got!

[MrGongGong]

Hearing something LIVE, and reproduced (you admit you heard a piece in Blackpool live...)can be chalk and cheese if you don't have a rig up to it.

I was astonished to see he clearly was using 64' and 32' stops in a lot of the pieces, with obviously some serious gymnastics going on down there in places.
(I did check the pipe inventory to be sure!).

To be fair, you have to be aware a Willis based Organ has very little in common with the Cavaille-Coll monsters he plays more normally.
It's a bit like a pilot jumping from a Boeing into an Airbus, so you have to admire the sheer virtuosity of the man.

As my system is actually capable of reproducing the subsonic notes, I was very suprised to see content in the 11hz-20hz zone.
If you don't hear that stuff, yes what you heard will be lacklustre and sound bland.

1.7million quid later I wouldn't expect less than the fantastic experience we got!

Just interested in what sub you have that goes down to 11hz ?

[Master Jacques]

In which case I very much doubt if you know what good sound is.
Obviously you don't have close to a system that can reproduce those real low frequencies. ...[snip]...
As my system is actually capable of reproducing the subsonic notes, I was very suprised to see content in the 11hz-20hz zone.
If you don't hear that stuff, yes what you heard will be lacklustre and sound bland.

I have no intention of inviting you round to sample my sound system, so please be as rude as you like.

I was frankly less surprised by the amount of earth-shattering noise OL was able to generate on his Willis - which is a given - than by the depressingly small amount of musical interest. Let's stick to the Sabre Dance, shall we? Sunday's was lumpy, sluggish and slack (as well as fallibly fingered): Latry is a great musician on his day, whose Messiaen I wouldn't swap for anyone's, but I doubt this was one of them. Possibly (given its lack of 64' stops and its showbiz glamour at the expense of demonstration sound) this Wurlitzer version will be beneath your notice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpXqyWuO1tI

but for anyone with ears to hear, I suggest that it captures Khachaturian's original, thrilling, careering short-ride-in-a-fast-machine far better than Latry did at Sunday's lacklustre Prom. Vulgarity is sometimes a necessary part of musical experience, you see.

[ANON]

Just interested in what sub you have that goes down to 11hz ?

I don't have a SUB.*
I wouldn't touch any of that modern badly designed stuff with a barge pole.

btw I could understand the proms concert was designed to showcase that organ.
I think they did a splendid job of that, because they obviously used a shed load of large diaphragm (? Neumanns? ) to get the result, and very well balanced it was too.



*FYI, I designed and built the "monsters" with the specific aim of being able to reproduce certain difficult stuff with ease, and with zero compression on uncompressed HD audio.
Big bass drum in some pieces is one of the really tough cookies.