Prom 22: Rachmaninov, Shostakovich & Outi Tarkiainen - 4.08.19

[ANON]

I was very lucky yesterday. (this morning I came across this forum by chance).

I was able to listen to the magnificent Latry Organ concert in the morning, then the repeat of the Shostakovich 5 in the afternoon, then finally (our time late night) Shostakovich 11.

I don't know what people are listening on for a system, but even in mp3 via the internet stream the effect was electric!

The Albert Hall has a major weakness, which makes for a poor detailed wind section and a correspondingly UBER-powerful string section, but that also comes down to the choices made by the BBC multi mic setup.
Personally I don't like their mix, although it's improved out of all recognition from the low point of about 5-6yrs ago.
(Radio France is variable but often better)

I am interested to see if the binaural version is any better (on some HD650) but I was lucky enough to D/L a high bit rate torrent of the ORGAN this morning.
WOW!

The commentators of course are just silly.
The choice to get "gushing" ignorant millenials or snowflakes is a BBC branding issue.
They have a narrow vocabulary ranging from "amazing" "fantastic" and who knows what other superlatives.

Latry as usual spoke for himself, with excellent French flair for describing what he does,- like a "Brasserie" of sound.
Merci Latry!
Common sense rules luckily.

[gurnemanz]

a symphony with relatively thin melodic material stretched out to extraordinary lengths, not sustainably.... if one is going to hear the work at all, it should be live in the concert hall. Especially with the sheer volume that the work generates, I would think that the Gallery, or the center seats just below the Gallery, would be the best place to hear it in the RAH.

This makes me wonder about the delay that Sarah Walker mentioned to the start of the 2nd half, as I wonder now if it involved tech issues with the TV cameras.

It would have been nice if the crowd had held its applause and let the tocsin bells fully ring out before applauding

First Prom we have attended this year. While agreeing in the main with comments about the thin material stretched out, I found that it was just about sustained and definitely agree that it is a work to be heard live, even if my septuagenarian legs were tested and are rather stiff this morning. The whole thing came across very vividly and we were standing towards the back of the arena. Some sections did seem drawn out but lots of great passages: eg the violas in the "You Fell as Heroes" theme (which several audience members were humming on the way out - myself included) the lovely cor anglais solo in the last movement and of course the bell at the end resounding mighty from the Gallery - also somewhat annoyed that the applause cut in prematurely.

The interval delay was very strange but did give us a chance to grab a coffee and enjoy an extended sitdown to give legs a rest and chat with our friends from Germany who come to London every summer for a week of Proms. It did mean that as we got to the Queens Arms they rang the last orders bell just after we had sat down with our round of drinks. We had forgotten was Sunday.

[richardfinegold]

Agree that JS and the BBC Phil did a terrific job with DSCH 11. Where we disagree is on the merits of the work itself, as I put myself in the opposite camp in terms of its merits. From hearing it live several times (and reinforced by this Prom via iPlayer), I've found DSCH 11 to be a symphony with relatively thin melodic material stretched out to extraordinary lengths, not sustainably. From those live performances, though, if only for the sheer visceral thrill of the 2nd movement, if one is going to hear the work at all, it should be live in the concert hall. Especially with the sheer volume that the work generates, I would think that the Gallery, or the center seats just below the Gallery, would be the best place to hear it in the RAH.

Regarding the ending, it's understandable if it was a bit ragged, as the musicians may have been tuckered out by the end. This makes me wonder about the delay that Sarah Walker mentioned to the start of the 2nd half, as I wonder now if it involved tech issues with the TV cameras. That's just a guess based on nothing, of course. It would have been nice if the crowd had held its applause and let the tocsin bells fully ring out before applauding, although that might have been asking a lot if many in the crowd were newbies. On one of the times that I've heard it live, the conductor did keep his arms aloft and prevented the audience from applauding before the bell chimes ran their course. That final echo on that one occasion lasted something like 40 seconds.

(As kind of a side experiment, I wonder if anyone has thought to screen Battleship Potemkin with DSCH 11 running as musical accompaniment. Haven't tried it myself, but it would be interesting, as DSCH 11 is a film score without a film, in its way.)

There is a version of The Battleship Potemkin that uses the 11th as accompaniment. My son pulled up for me on YT several years ago

[johnb]

The Albert Hall has a major weakness, which makes for a poor detailed wind section and a correspondingly UBER-powerful string section, but that also comes down to the choices made by the BBC multi mic setup.
Personally I don't like their mix, although it's improved out of all recognition from the low point of about 5-6yrs ago.
(Radio France is variable but often better)

One thing I have noticed with the Proms broadcasts is that the double basses are significantly louder, and at times more dominating, than on most (perhaps all) of the commercial recordings I have. They also sound a bit "boomy" on my system, but that might in part be due to my living room/system.

[Paulie55]

Pause before applause

Agree that JS and the BBC Phil did a terrific job with DSCH 11. Where we disagree is on the merits of the work itself, as I put myself in the opposite camp in terms of its merits. From hearing it live several times (and reinforced by this Prom via iPlayer), I've found DSCH 11 to be a symphony with relatively thin melodic material stretched out to extraordinary lengths, not sustainably. From those live performances, though, if only for the sheer visceral thrill of the 2nd movement, if one is going to hear the work at all, it should be live in the concert hall. Especially with the sheer volume that the work generates, I would think that the Gallery, or the center seats just below the Gallery, would be the best place to hear it in the RAH.

Regarding the ending, it's understandable if it was a bit ragged, as the musicians may have been tuckered out by the end. This makes me wonder about the delay that Sarah Walker mentioned to the start of the 2nd half, as I wonder now if it involved tech issues with the TV cameras. That's just a guess based on nothing, of course. It would have been nice if the crowd had held its applause and let the tocsin bells fully ring out before applauding, although that might have been asking a lot if many in the crowd were newbies. On one of the times that I've heard it live, the conductor did keep his arms aloft and prevented the audience from applauding before the bell chimes ran their course. That final echo on that one occasion lasted something like 40 seconds.

(As kind of a side experiment, I wonder if anyone has thought to screen Battleship Potemkin with DSCH 11 running as musical accompaniment. Haven't tried it myself, but it would be interesting, as DSCH 11 is a film score without a film, in its way.)

I agree about the way audiences tend to rush in and cheer too soon but that's understandable after such thrilling live performances. What's much, much worse is Tom Service once again shouting over the applause in his usual strident and garbled manner. Mr Service and other R3 presenters may or may not be as knowledgeable as we(or they)think but surely the prerequisite for an announcer is to be clearly heard....and with a far more measured approach?

[Paulie55]

Sensible comments, bsp. I find 'The Isle of the Dead' to be lacking in intensity and quality ideas. JS and the BBC PO did it proud.
You're right :Outi Tarkiainen's Midnight Sun Variations, made a good companion piece. The work sounded worthy rather than earth shattering.

I've always thought that DSCH's #11 symphony, despite its gloss of Soviet Poster paint, was a better symphony than DSCH's #12 and #13. Tonight's performance was committed, deeply-felt and excellent. Second-rate scores need such unreserved advocacy. My views are on the turn: I may listen again and admit #11 to the mighty handful of Shostakovich symphonies that I regard as masterful. The ending was ragged and that caused spluttering applause.

I enjoyed the "Midnight Sun Variations", with its echoes of Sibelius(particularly the Storm from his incidental music to The Tempest and from his tone poems)and the work was magically and colourfully orchestrated The only gripe I have with the "new" works heard so far is that there has been nothing that makes me want to stand up and cheer, nor a desire to hear the music again. I do wish some composers could write more positive, fast-moving and exciting music......something in the vein of Ben-Haim's 1st Symphony, which was dynamic, immediate and often exhilirating. Also, why do so many new works peter out rather than end defiantly? My final point is a repeated rant about the notable lack of British/English music so far.

[jonfan]

A stunning binaural mix is now available for the whole concert for everyone to savour.

[Bryn]

I have had an illiterate, disingenuous response to my webform report of the faulty edit of last night's Prom. The author implies that there was nothing wrong with the Sounds upload, stating that "In fact, the last note seems to take place at 2hrs 20mins and then there is about 5 more minutes of applause and commentary." Sure, it does now, but at 10.00 this morning it still only ran for a total of 2hrs 14mins, the final 6mins + appluase and presentation being stuck onto the start of Early Music Late. Big Brother Corporation lives.

Here's the gem of illiteracy, "We have did some investigating and testing around the programme length of Prom 22: Rachmaninov, Shostakovich and Outi Tarkiainen."

[Stunsworth]

Now, if the BBC (re) started doing the proms in surround sound, well YES, that would be really something.

The BBC -are- broadcasting Proms in surround sound, I was listening to one on Friday.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"Slung Mud" washed away - and, inevitably, some more measured responses to deleted posts, for which, again, I apologise.

[jayne lee wilson]

"Slung Mud" washed away - and, inevitably, some more measured responses to deleted posts, for which, again, I apologise.

Thanks fhg... I don't think you'll get too many complaints....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thanks fhg... I don't think you'll get too many complaints....

None, so far ...

<ducks>

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

<ducks>

That's a verb, not an endearment.

[jayne lee wilson]

That's a verb, not an endearment.

Oh, that's a shame...