Proms 29 & 30: The Warner Brothers Story 9.08.19

[Master Jacques]

I'm glad you edited that last sentence. I was struggling to understand why your obvious dislike of the genre was leading you to appear to insult those who don't share your view. However, we do share a love of light music (especially Elizabethan Serenade). John Wilson, for all that the orchestra he formed plays a lot of film music, is partial to it as well. Including yesterday's new release on Chandos he's now got four recordings of the music of Eric Coates out there.

Yes, thank you Dave - I saw that last sentence could be misread in a way I never intended. Chacun a son gout! And I wouldn't want you to think I'm not a great admirer of John Wilson, who uses the dough he makes on the film stuff to float releases of "light music" and (even more impressively) the great composers he dearly loves, such as Arnold Bax. In that, he's the true heir to Handley.

[jonfan]

Can you give more details about these four recordings of Eric Coates please? I note that a first issue of Coates’ music is out on 27 September with the BBC Phil. A CD just out of Korngold that looks tempting. I recommend JW’s CDs of Copland wholeheartedly.

[Dave Payn]

Can you give more details about these four recordings of Eric Coates please? I note that a first issue of Coates’ music is out on 27 September with the BBC Phil. A CD just out of Korngold that looks tempting. I recommend JW’s CDs of Copland wholeheartedly.

The Coates BBC Phil Vol. 1 was released on download by Chandos yesterday. You can find it on theclassicalshop.net but yes, the CD itself won't be released until 27th September.

Just bought the Korngold. Haven't listened to it yet.

The other three Coates/Wilson recorded collaborations are London Again with the RLPO on the Avie label AV 2070, The Enchanted Garden - 10 Orchestral Pieces with the BBCCO, ASV CD WHL 2112, and Under The Stars - 17 Orchestral Miniatures with the BBCCO, ASV CD WHL 2107.

[jayne lee wilson]

My three, favourite film makers are:
Bunuel (who doesn't use music at all, except when characters are playing it on gramophones or hearing it in the street.)
Tarkovsky (who chose collaborators on the grounds that you don't "notice" the music at all while you're watching - Eduard Artemyev's electronic work with him is perfection, otherwise AT uses snippets of Bach or Russian liturgical music to bolster his themes of religious aspiration and numinous experience, never under speech.)
Ozu (who only uses music - sugary, sentimental "light music" - strictly between scenes, to ironically distance our emotions. Again, apart from street/bar music, there is no music used during scenes here.)

Apologies for my somewhat grumpy post last night (fresh from the wonders of Jephtha) but as you can see from the above, I like film music which either isn't there at all, which works so subtly that you don't notice, or is there simply as a contrasted (and pretty much irrelevant) "interlude".

I think what gets my goat is the middle-brow tone of certain R3 presenters, who with that wink and smile in the voice seem to be implying "we know this is what we all prefer, really, to that intellectual stuff that gives you a headache because you have to think about it". Light music (bless it) is one thing, to refresh the palate: Film music adulterates our tastebuds.

With a very few exceptions, where the music is the film (e.g. Walton's Henry V, Prokofiev's Nevsky, Glass's Koyaanisqatsi ...) [/I], devoting valuable space to film music is the last refuge of the bankrupt concert programmer. It's about making money, not art.

Amazed that you "wouldn't notice" that Bach/Artemyev soundtrack for Solaris... It is an essential, haunting, memorable element in a film which would always be in my top ten, if not top five.... without the music.... nothing ever so great....it comes to sound as the voice of the planet itself...

Shame you seem so down on John Williams....the sequence from about 20' in of Jurassic Park (1), from the helicopter's approach to the island up to the Brachiosaur's stunning first appearance, is one of the great, most perfectly-matched, image/music sequences in movie history!

(As for Henry V, Koyaanisqatsi, Nevsky....great films made great & greater by their music.... it is a close, intimate, creative collaboration, like Williams/Spielberg...try watching with the sound muted.....)

[Ein Heldenleben]

Whatever you think about the musical quality of film music ( and with Britten, Shostakovich, Walton and Prokofiev evidence that they took it seriously - all producing quality work ) you have to admire the craft of the film composer . The integration of each bar of the score to each cut in the rough edit and the replication of that in the recording studio takes huge skill from composer , conductor and performers . A doc I saw on Richard Rodney Bennett took you through the process. His waltz to accompany the steaming up and pulling out from the station of the Orient Express is a masterpiece of the film composer’s , film director’s, film editor’s and dubbing mixer’s art . It’s also a bloody good tune...

[jonfan]

The Coates BBC Phil Vol. 1 was released on download by Chandos yesterday. You can find it on theclassicalshop.net but yes, the CD itself won't be released until 27th September.

Just bought the Korngold. Haven't listened to it yet.

The other three Coates/Wilson recorded collaborations are London Again with the RLPO on the Avie label AV 2070, The Enchanted Garden - 10 Orchestral Pieces with the BBCCO, ASV CD WHL 2112, and Under The Stars - 17 Orchestral Miniatures with the BBCCO, ASV CD WHL 2107.

Many thanks Dave. I can see my bank balance is going to be sorely challenged again this month.

[gurnemanz]

Whatever you think about the musical quality of film music ( and with Britten, Shostakovich, Walton and Prokofiev evidence that they took it seriously - all producing quality work ) you have to admire the craft of the film composer . The integration of each bar of the score to each cut in the rough edit and the replication of that in the recording studio takes huge skill from composer , conductor and performers . A doc I saw on Richard Rodney Bennett took you through the process. His waltz to accompany the steaming up and pulling out from the station of the Orient Express is a masterpiece of the film composer’s , film director’s, film editor’s and dubbing mixer’s art . It’s also a bloody good tune...

A fascinating documentary a few weeks ago on BBC4 about Malolm Arnold's Oscar-winning music for David Lean's Bridge on the River Kwai and challenges involved. I'd have added a link but it's no longer available. Plenty of classic collaborations - off the top of my head: Hitchcock/Herrmann, Feĺlini/Nino Rota (eg two favourites, Amacord, Otto e mezzo), Leone/Morricone. Ry Cooder for Wenders' Paris, Texas is one of the few soundtrack recordings I have actually bought.

[Nick Armstrong]

Certainly not. Ars longa, vita brevis!

As for "light music", there's more imagination and technical artistry in one, three-minute piece by Ronnie Binge than in the whole of the Star Wars musical scores, laid end to end.

Which one? I give you Elizabethan Serenade!

I’ll see your Elizabethan Serenade, and raise you Korngold’s Sea Hawk - arguably more relevant, as it was actually in the concert under discussion...

[MrGongGong]

Whatever you think about the musical quality of film music ( and with Britten, Shostakovich, Walton and Prokofiev evidence that they took it seriously - all producing quality work ) you have to admire the craft of the film composer . The integration of each bar of the score to each cut in the rough edit and the replication of that in the recording studio takes huge skill from composer , conductor and performers . A doc I saw on Richard Rodney Bennett took you through the process. His waltz to accompany the steaming up and pulling out from the station of the Orient Express is a masterpiece of the film composer’s , film director’s, film editor’s and dubbing mixer’s art . It’s also a bloody good tune...

When I was a student I spent a long 12 hour session with RRB editing (on 1/4" tape) the soundtrack to The Cabinet of Dr Caligari which had been composed by various student composers at the Dartington summer school. Some hadn't made enough music so we added repeats by editing them in and some had mistimed in the other direction so cuts etc
one of the formative experiences of my student days, such a wonderful musician and generous with time and sharing skill even at 4:30am with a screening due to start at 9:30 and much to do.... I could almost forgive his "American Songbook" stuff that came later

[Pianoman]

Many thanks Dave. I can see my bank balance is going to be sorely challenged again this month.

Jon I’ve just acquired the Korngold Symphony and it’s a cracker. Wasn’t sure at first about the speeds -he’s fast in every movement- but he never sounds breathless and the playing is simply fantastic. Apparently he’s resurrected the Sinfonia of London as a name with hand-picked players and the playing and sound (Kilburn) really make the disc something else. I have 4 versions of the Symphony but this is now very near the top.

[doversoul1]

A fascinating documentary a few weeks ago on BBC4 about Malolm Arnold's Oscar-winning music for David Lean's Bridge on the River Kwai and challenges involved. I'd have added a link but it's no longer available. Plenty of classic collaborations - off the top of my head: Hitchcock/Herrmann, Feĺlini/Nino Rota (eg two favourites, Amacord, Otto e mezzo), Leone/Morricone. Ry Cooder for Wenders' Paris, Texas is one of the few soundtrack recordings I have actually bought.

Isn’t the point of the argument on this thread is ‘film music is for films and not for concerts (let alone for the proms)’?

[MrGongGong]

Isn’t the point of the argument on this thread is ‘film music is for films and not for concerts (let alone for the proms)’?

Is dance music just for dancing ?

To extend the logic of the argument, recording music designed for religious occaisions isn't "acceptable" either.
So bye bye Bach CDs etc etc etc

[Master Jacques]

I’ll see your Elizabethan Serenade, and raise you Korngold’s Sea Hawk - arguably more relevant, as it was actually in the concert under discussion...

I'll Sea your Hawk, and raise you a Sailing By - which fortunately we get every night on Radio 4! Point taken about the relevance to the concert, but inevitably the amount of money and publicity spent on it raises the question of Prom programming priorities - so I feel it is relevant, even if one has no intention of listening to the particular selection of film gobbets in question.

[Master Jacques]

Amazed that you "wouldn't notice" that Bach/Artemyev soundtrack for Solaris... It is an essential, haunting, memorable element in a film which would always be in my top ten, if not top five.... without the music.... nothing ever so great....it comes to sound as the voice of the planet itself...

I totally agree with you, Jayne, as to its effect - nicely put indeed. The musical component for Stalker is perhaps even subtler and more pervasive. Tarkovsky's point was, that if you consciously notice the music (except at those moments where he places Bach - in Solaris - centre stage) then it is not doing its job properly. Artemew understood that (there's a wonderful documentary about his work with the filmmaker on one of the criterion blu-rays) and carried out the brief to perfection.

[doversoul1]

Is dance music just for dancing ?

To extend the logic of the argument, recording music designed for religious occaisions isn't "acceptable" either.
So bye bye Bach CDs etc etc etc

Whatever dance music you are thinking about, it will probably make a good concert in 300 year’s time