Proms 29 & 30: The Warner Brothers Story 9.08.19

[Ein Heldenleben]

Quite a few are full time salaried i.e the BBC orchs . I think I’m right in saying that the London orchestras have a mix of part time salaried positions ( where the musicians can do other freelance work ) and freelances. The freelance rate card for UK orchestras can be found here.

https://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/Home/Advice/Playing-Live/Orchestral-Work/Pay-Conditions/Orchestral-Freelance-Agreements

The John Wilson orchestra isn’t listed . I am guessing that the rates are probably over the top end of these rates purely because whenever I’ve gone I’ve spotted some top notch musicians e,g Dominic Seldis who is Principal double bass of the Concertgebouw. Equally they may enjoy it so much they reduce their rates.Having looked at the MU rate card I would be amazed if the JW rates aren’t higher . The life of a jobbing freelance musician is not exactly a route to riches.
Finally the fact that the concert was televised and radio/net relayed will also increase the payment to the artists .

[Nick Armstrong]

It certainly did with huge contrasts between the delicate moments and the crowning of everything with the organ surging through at the end. It was good for the orchestra to be the main attraction this year rather than a staged musical. Top players filling the stage and absolutely loving every moment. JW, so self effacing, not a wasted or ostentatious gesture, a national musical treasure for sure.

Watching at the moment as part of my five-week backlog of televised Proms... I agree with all that, jonfan (apart from the fact that I haven’t reached the end). The painstaking recreation (referred to up-thread) and rehearsal behind the scenes only augment one’s admiration... and I absolutely love Wilson’s understated style on the podium, a mark of the underlying work: true musicianship, letting the music speak for itself in impeccable and exhilarating style. Huge treat.

[Tony Halstead]

Dazzling orchestral playing. Gorgeous rich, lush string sound. How do they do that? Interesting contribution from JW himself during the interval about the distinctive sound he gets out of them. It’s a very big section, by the looks of things, they use a lot of narrow vibrato and very long bows. Would love to learn more about this some time. Possible future article for The Strad magazine?

My son, a professional violinist, tells me that it's not the 'narrowness' of their vibrato that partly accounts for the distinctive sound, it's the fact that the vibrato never ceases. No 'white' sounds! Also, their bows are, of course, no longer than standard, 'modern' Tourte style bows, but the players use every single centimetre of bow (about 75 cm) rather than the safe option of the middle of the bow.

[DracoM]

it's the old R2 Friday night is music night formula - whether it deserves 2 evenings is debatable but since R2 threw out that sort of entertainment I suspect R3 is the only station that can be lent on to give it air time.

Ahem..........for me deffo not worth ONE let alone two nights.
The slow death of the Proms??

[Master Jacques]

Ahem..........for me deffo not worth ONE let alone two nights.
The slow death of the Proms??

I also see that Gramophone (on the strength of the current issue) needs to be renamed Film Music Monthly. The obeisance paid to ripped-off, populist mediocrity - most of it bad Hollywood Schlock - which isn't even decent film music of real integrity, seems to me a sad symptom of the times. Anything goes, provided we aren't required to think about it. People who chime in remind me rather of Tony Blair gushing about football. It is a desperate state of affairs for art music, most of which goes completely under the Proms radar.

[Nick Armstrong]

Did you listen to this specific concert, Draco & Master Jacques?

[jayne lee wilson]

I also see that Gramophone (on the strength of the current issue) needs to be renamed Film Music Monthly. The obeisance paid to ripped-off, populist mediocrity - most of it bad Hollywood Schlock - which isn't even decent film music of real integrity, seems to me a sad symptom of the times. Anything goes, provided we aren't required to think about it. People who chime in remind me rather of Tony Blair gushing about football. It is a desperate state of affairs for art music, most of which goes completely under the Proms radar.

So you haven't actually read it then?
("Film Music Monthly" on the strength of one issue?
......the Awards Shortlist/Reviews supplement is also out this month...and there's a lengthy feature on "Who is Kirill Petrenko?", another on David Sawer....Quantrill making some very unexpected links to & from Turangalila in What Next?....... so.... you can ignore the filmic pieces if you wish...)

Fascinating, by no means uncritical article on the modern craft of film scoring, with much on the politics and bargaining of getting your music included or retained within the film itself..., electronics and the ubiquitous "temp music" (I never knew about this before - pre-existing music often borrowed from other films, used to set mood and pace, supposed to be replaced later by the new score, but producers etc get attached to it and then....).....
I speak as one who loves film scores, especially JW's for Spielberg, but only ever hears them when watching the film itself....
Hans Zimmer (Dunkirk, Dark Knight etc) is in there, along with other less well known composers like Goransson...(Black Panther)....

And another interview piece with Anne-Sophie Mutter focussing on her new record, "Across the Stars", a violin concerto by John Williams using themes from various films of his, not least.... Star Wars of course.
A a great Star Wars fan, I've got this lined up on Qobuz for later.....I might love it or hate it... but so what? ASM is devoted to the project so it is at least worth a go....

[pastoralguy]

"Film Music Monthly" on the strength of one issue? So you haven't actually read it then?
Anyway, the Awards Shortlist/Reviews supplement is also out this month.... you can ignore the filmic pieces if you wish...

Fascinating, by no means uncritical articles on the modern craft of film scoring, with much on the politics and bargaining of getting your music included or retained within the film itself..., electronics and the ubiquitous "temp music" (I never knew about this before - pre-existing music used to set mood and pace, supposed to be replaced later by the new score, but producers etc get attached to it and then....).....
I speak as one who loves film scores, especially JW's for Spielberg, but only ever hears them when watching the film itself....

And another interview piece with Anne-Sophie Mutter focussing on her new record, "Across the Stars", a violin concerto by John Williams usuign theme from various films of his, not least.... Star Wars of course.
A a great fan, I've got this lined up on Qobuz for later.....I might love it or hate it... but so what? ASM is devoted to the project so it is at least worth a go....

I used to play a LOT of light music and it always attracted top class musicians who often worked for 'scale' MU rates so it must have SOMETHING going for it! In fact I can remember a gig of 'film music' where the first violin section was the front decks of the RSNO, SCO, BBCSSO and the Edinburgh Quartet! (Some pretty classy fiddle players there!)

And let's not forget that the average film score is, technically, much more difficult that a Beethoven or Brahms symphony. So don't knock it!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Co-incidentally just re-watching the concert on iplayer this evening after a frustrating first viewing at a holiday home with duff reception . If Korngold, Previn , Harry Warren and Harold Arlen are “schlock” then give me excess of it....

(Not quite so keen on Romberg though ..sorry )

[Master Jacques]

Did you listen to this specific concert, Draco & Master Jacques?

Certainly not. Ars longa, vita brevis! The shameful thing is, that it's there at all, wasting space. As for "light music", there's more imagination and technical artistry in one, three-minute piece by Ronnie Binge than in the whole of the Star Wars musical scores, laid end to end.

Which one? I give you Elizabethan Serenade!

[jayne lee wilson]

Certainly not. Ars longa, vita brevis! The shameful thing is, that it's there at all, wasting space. As for "light music", there's more imagination and technical artistry in one, three-minute piece by Ronnie Binge than in the whole of the Star Wars musical scores, laid end to end.

Which one? I give you Elizabethan Serenade!

What are your favourite films, and how does their music affect you? (Especially while you watch...)...
Would they be the same without it?
Context is all.....

[Darkbloom]

And let's not forget that the average film score is, technically, much more difficult that a Beethoven or Brahms symphony. So don't knock it!

I remember reading that the score for Lawrence of Arabia was actually conducted by the composer, Maurice Jarre, instead of Adrian Boult because Boult found it too difficult.

[doversoul1]

I remember reading that the score for Lawrence of Arabia was actually conducted by the composer, Maurice Jarre, instead of Adrian Boult because Boult found it too difficult.

That was probably because conducting film music was not his thing. What’s the surprise?

[Master Jacques]

What are your favourite films, and how does their music affect you? (Especially while you watch...)...
Would they be the same without it?
Context is all.....

My three, favourite film makers are:
Bunuel (who doesn't use music at all, except when characters are playing it on gramophones or hearing it in the street.)
Tarkovsky (who chose collaborators on the grounds that you don't "notice" the music at all while you're watching - Eduard Artemyev's electronic work with him is perfection, otherwise AT uses snippets of Bach or Russian liturgical music to bolster his themes of religious aspiration and numinous experience, never under speech.)
Ozu (who only uses music - sugary, sentimental "light music" - strictly between scenes, to ironically distance our emotions. Again, apart from street/bar music, there is no music used during scenes here.)

Apologies for my somewhat grumpy post last night (fresh from the wonders of Jephtha) but as you can see from the above, I like film music which either isn't there at all, which works so subtly that you don't notice, or is there simply as a contrasted (and pretty much irrelevant) "interlude".

I think what gets my goat is the middle-brow tone of certain R3 presenters, who with that wink and smile in the voice seem to be implying "we know this is what we all prefer, really, to that intellectual stuff that gives you a headache because you have to think about it". Light music (bless it) is one thing, to refresh the palate: Film music adulterates our tastebuds.

With a very few exceptions, where the music is the film (e.g. Walton's Henry V, Prokofiev's Nevsky, Glass's Koyaanisqatsi ...) [/I], devoting valuable space to film music is the last refuge of the bankrupt concert programmer. It's about making money, not art.

[Dave Payn]

My three, favourite film makers are:
Bunuel (who doesn't use music at all, except when characters are playing it on gramophones or hearing it in the street.)
Tarkovsky (who chose collaborators on the grounds that you don't "notice" the music at all while you're watching - Eduard Artemyev's electronic work with him is perfection, otherwise AT uses snippets of Bach or Russian liturgical music to bolster his themes of religious aspiration and numinous experience, never under speech.)
Ozu (who only uses music - sugary, sentimental "light music" - strictly between scenes, to ironically distance our emotions. Again, apart from street/bar music, there is no music used during scenes here.)

Apologies for my somewhat grumpy post last night (fresh from the wonders of Jephtha) but as you can see from the above, I like film music which either isn't there at all, which works so subtly that you don't notice, or is there simply as a contrasted (and pretty much irrelevant) "interlude".

I think what gets my goat is the middle-brow tone of certain R3 presenters, who with that wink and smile in the voice seem to be implying "we know this is what we all prefer, really, to that intellectual stuff that gives you a headache because you have to think about it". Light music (bless it) is one thing, to refresh the palate: Film music adulterates our tastebuds.

With a very few exceptions, where the music is the film (e.g. Walton's Henry V, Prokofiev's Nevsky, Glass's Koyaanisqatsi ...) [/I], devoting valuable space to film music is the last refuge of the bankrupt concert programmer. It's about making money, not art.

I'm glad you edited that last sentence. I was struggling to understand why your obvious dislike of the genre was leading you to appear to insult those who don't share your view. However, we do share a love of light music (especially Elizabethan Serenade). John Wilson, for all that the orchestra he formed plays a lot of film music, is partial to it as well. Including yesterday's new release on Chandos he's now got four recordings of the music of Eric Coates out there.