Prom 39: Elgar, Errollyn Wallen, Mendelssohn & Mussorgsky - 15.08.19

[Bryn]

. . . Mussorg[s]ky's "Pictures" has to be the most-arranged piano work of all time! ...

Yet, to my ears, the best 'orchestration' remains that which the composer wrote for the piano. I feel much the same as I do about Henry Brant's orchestration of Ives's Concord Sonata as a 'Symphony' - very much a supplement, rather than an improvement.

[cloughie]

Yet, to my ears, the best 'orchestration' remains that which the composer wrote for the piano. I feel much the same as I do about Henry Brant's orchestration of Ives's Concord Sonata as a 'Symphony' - very much a supplement, rather than an improvement.

What are your thoughts on Ravel’s orchestrations of his own piano works - I cannot make a preference - I suppose it depends on what at the time suits my listening needs.

[kernelbogey]

Yet, to my ears, the best 'orchestration' remains that which the composer wrote for the piano. I feel much the same as I do about Henry Brant's orchestration of Ives's Concord Sonata as a 'Symphony' - very much a supplement, rather than an improvement.

Is it possible now to hear the piano original without a 'shadow' of Ravel's orchestral version somehow in one's consciousness?

[Richard Barrett]

IMHO Ravel was one of the most imaginative, original and sensitive orchestrators of all time, plus 19th century piano music doesn't on the whole do a lot for me so I would hardly ever choose to hear the original over Ravel's version. On the other hand, Koechlin was also a master orchestrator but his Wanderer Fantasy which I listened to the other day isn't something I'd want to hear again in a hurry. There's something about the combination of Mussorgsky and Ravel that's greater than the sum of its parts, I think.

[vinteuil]

... 19th century piano music doesn't on the whole do a lot for me ...

... that is sad. For me the piano works of Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Brahms are among the most involving music experiences I have had.

.

[Richard Barrett]

... that is sad. For me the piano works of Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Brahms are among the most involving music experiences I have had.

.

Oh I'm very fond of the first three of those, as I've said on numerous occasions no doubt, and especially Schubert; I should have said "later 19th century" I suppose.

[Serial_Apologist]

What are your thoughts on Ravel’s orchestrations of his own piano works - I cannot make a preference - I suppose it depends on what at the time suits my listening needs.

Good question! I am fine with them, especially that of "Ma mère l'oye", which for me is his most exquisite orchstration, even including "Daphnis"; I just wish he had orchestrated the two missing movements from "Le tombeau de Couperin", one of which is a fugue; it would have been fascinating to discover how Ravel would have orchestrated a fugue - anyone's, for that matter. Or did he, and they just get left out of performances?

[jayne lee wilson]

Oh I'm very fond of the first three of those, as I've said on numerous occasions no doubt, and especially Schubert; I should have said "later 19th century" I suppose.

Not even the Brahms Op.10, those haunting, sublime Ballades...?
Once I'd heard the first piece (Michelangeli) it knew it would stay with me for ever...

[Richard Barrett]

Not even the Brahms Op.10

Nobody can like everything! - I've tried hard with Brahms (and with Liszt and Alkan and so on) but for me piano music between Chopin and Debussy is mostly a wasteland. Apart from when it's orchestrated by Ravel!

[Sir Velo]

Not even the Brahms Op.10, those haunting, sublime Ballades...?
[/I]...

Oh, but surely the Opus 5's is the summit of his solo oeuvre? The forever leonine Katchen unsurpassed in this decidedly young man's music!

[edashtav]

IMHO Ravel was one of the most imaginative, original and sensitive orchestrators of all time, plus 19th century piano music doesn't on the whole do a lot for me so I would hardly ever choose to hear the original over Ravel's version. On the other hand, Koechlin was also a master orchestrator but his Wanderer Fantasy which I listened to the other day isn't something I'd want to hear again in a hurry. There's something about the combination of Mussorgsky and Ravel that's greater than the sum of its parts, I think.

[Pulcinella]

Nobody can like everything! - I've tried hard with Brahms (and with Liszt and Alkan and so on) but for me piano music between Chopin and Debussy is mostly a wasteland. Apart from when it's orchestrated by Ravel!

I may well have said elsewhere that my set practical pieces for A level were the Brahms Op 117 Intermezzi: I never really got on with them, and found them much harder than my Grade 8 pieces. The set work was Brahms S2 (which I still adore); arguably too much Brahms! Thankfully, the head of Physics took the music set for a period a week, and introduced us to C20 music (often all us us poring over the pocket score), and I've never looked back!

[cloughie]

Good question! I am fine with them, especially that of "Ma mère l'oye", which for me is his most exquisite orchstration, even including "Daphnis"; I just wish he had orchestrated the two missing movements from "Le tombeau de Couperin", one of which is a fugue; it would have been fascinating to discover how Ravel would have orchestrated a fugue - anyone's, for that matter. Or did he, and they just get left out of performances?

Not Ravel’s own but there is an arrangement by Zoltan Kocsis on the Hungaroton label.